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Post by Uttamasloka on Sept 7, 2013 16:38:20 GMT -5
Recently, Hrdayananda Mahajara answered questions from an anonymous devotee about the necessity of practicing raganuga-bhakti and it was posted on Dandavats.com. I've written an analysis of his answers, point by point, as he presented it.
It should be understood that “Assisting his mission” does not in and of itself directly lead to entering Vraja lila. Rather, such service is the qualifying guru-seva that leads one directly to the knowledge presented by our acaryas (and SP) regarding raganuga-bhakti, which is the only practice that leads directly to entrance into the Vraja lila. This is confirmed by SP in his books, as well as by all the acaryas in their books. Confirming references will be provided further on.
It’s true that sincere and devoted service will eventually lead one to the stage of raganuga-bhakti. It should be noted that, according to the acaryas, the spontaneity of raganuga is specifically in conjunction with one’s desired rasa/relationship with Krsna. Until that realization awakens, there is no question of being qualified to practice raganuga-bhakti. Doing one’s service spontaneously is not considered by the acaryas to be raganuga-bhakti. From Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu (BRS):
Those qualified for vaidhi-bhakti are dependent on the rules of scripture and favorable use of logic until the appearance of bhava-bhakti. BRS, 1.2.293
From Jiva Gosvami’s commentary:
Because of following after the ragatmikas, those practicing raganuga-bhakti practice bhakti with no limitations. That means that there is no specific rule concerning the time at which they will give up dependence on the rules of scripture. Is there a limit to how long those practicing vaidhi-bhakti should depend on the rules? This verse answers. Bhava here means rati or the stage of bhava-bhakti after sadhana-bhakti.
From Visvanatha Cakravarti’s commentary:
In performing sadhana-bhakti, the vaidhi-bhakti practitioner will depend on scriptural injunctions and favorable use of logic until the appearance of rati (bhava). After the appearance of rati, he no longer depends on these things.
However, as soon as the greed manifests in a person (for attaining a bhava similar to that of the vraja-vasis), and he develops an inclination for raga-bhakti, the practitioner of raganuga-bhakti does not depend any longer on scriptural rules and logic. Thus, it is greatly superior.
However, wherever that greed has appeared, it is understood that the person must have studied the scriptures in order to attain that greed. It is also necessary to study the scriptures in order to understand the proper sadhana for raganuga-bhakti.
Preaching, in and of itself, is not raganuga-bhakti, nor is it an inferior activity. It is part of kirtanam, and thus it is an anga (limb) of both vaidhi-sadhana-bhakti and raganuga-sadhana-bhakti. The specific angas of sadhana-bhakti do not define the type of bhakti one practices. None of the acaryas say that.
Practitioners of vaidhi and raganuga engage in the same activities, ie: sravanam, kirtanam, smaranam, arcanam, etc. Those practicing vaidhi are focused on rules and regulations and have not yet awakened their desired relationship with Krsna, whereas those who are genuinely qualified for raganuga have reached that stage. That is a big difference and the primary distinction between these two types of sadhana-bhakti.
From BRS:
Some persons call vaidhi-bhakti the path of rules (maryada-marga), because it is bound by strong limitation of the rules mentioned in the scriptures. BRS, 1.2.269
Visvanatha Cakravarti’s commentary:
If the rules spoken in the scriptures are prominent in one’s devotional process, that immediately becomes the cause for performing bhakti. This vaidhi-bhakti, filled with rules, is called maryada-marga, by some people.
Raganuga-bhakti is defined as that bhakti which follows after the ragatmika-bhakti found distinctively in the inhabitants of Vraja. BRS, 1.2.270
Jiva Gosvami discusses the qualifications for the awakening of one’s rasa in his Bhakti-sandarbha:
For this reason we will now discuss raganuga-bhakti, the practice of devotion following in the wake of the moods of natural affection. When a person develops a taste for the aforesaid specific raga [i.e., any of the four major rasas], even though that raga itself has not arisen in her or him, the heart becomes like a crystal, shining as it reflects the rays of the moon of that raga.
By hearing about this raga from scripture or from one’s teacher, one develops a taste for the actions of the ragatmika associates also, that are expressions of this ragatmika-bhakti. Then by adhering to the raga of a particular associate of the Lord, according to one’s taste, one executes devotion, which is called raganuga. BS, Anuccheda 310
These are incorrect statements and are in fact, apasiddhanta. First of all, every acarya has extensively quoted SB to substantiate their assertions when discussing raganuga-bhakti in their books, eg: Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu, Raga-vartma-candrika, Madhurya-kadambini, Jaiva-dharma, etc. This is clearly obvious to those who have studied their teachings on raganuga-bhakti.
Secondly, raganuga is absolutely not a ‘detail’ - it is the most important siddhanta of Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy regarding abhidheya, the process to attain Vraja prema, the prayojana - the goal of bhakti. There is no other process recommended to enter Vraja lila, as confirmed by every acarya, including Lord Caitanya. Rupa Gosvami says nothing about raganuga being a ‘detail’ in BRS in any chapter, nor do any other acaryas.
In fact, the second half of the chapter on sadhana-bhakti in BRS is focused specifically on raganuga-bhakti, which then leads to the following chapters on bhava-bhakti and prema-bhakti. After that, the remainder of BRS is about the various related aspects of rasas/relationships with Krsna in Vraja - not Vaikuntha - all based on being attained only by praciticing raganuga-bhakti. Thus, raganuga-bhakti is of paramount importance in Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy.
Lord Caitanya specifically appeared to teach raganuga-bhakti by His personal example, so how can it possibly be a “variable detail”? Here are Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami’s statements about the appearance of Krsna as described in SB, along with SP’s comments:
Thus the killing of the demons is but secondary work. I shall now speak of the main reason for the Lord's incarnation. The Lord's desire to appear was born from two reasons: He wanted to taste the sweet essence of the mellows of love of God, and He wanted to propagate devotional service in the world on the platform of spontaneous attraction (raga-marga). Thus He is known as supremely jubilant and as the most merciful of all. CC, 1.4.14-16
PURPORT
During the period of Lord Krsna's appearance the killing of asuras or nonbelievers such as Kamsa and Jarasandha was done by Visnu, who was within the person of Sri Krsna. Such apparent killing by Lord Sri Krsna was a matter of course as an incidental activity, but the real purpose of Lord Krsna's appearance was to stage a dramatic performance of His transcendental pastimes at Vrajabhumi, thus exhibiting the highest limit of transcendental mellow in the exchanges of reciprocal love between the living entity and the Supreme Lord.
These reciprocal exchanges of mellows are called raga-bhakti, or devotional service to the Lord in transcendental rapture. Lord Sri Krsna wants to make known to all the conditioned souls that He is more attracted by raga-bhakti than vidhi-bhakti, or devotional service under scheduled regulations. It is said in the Vedas, raso vai sah - the Absolute Truth is the reservoir for all kinds of reciprocal exchanges of loving sentiments. He is also causelessly merciful, and He wants to bestow upon us this privilege of raga-bhakti. Thus He appeared as His own internal energy. He was not forced to appear by any extraneous force.
More from CC:
Everywhere in the world people worship Me according to scriptural injunctions (vidhi-bhakti). But simply by following such regulative principles one cannot attain the loving sentiments of the devotees in Vraja bhumi. CC, 1.3.15
Knowing My opulences, the whole world looks upon Me with awe and veneration. But devotion made feeble by such reverence does not attract Me. CC, 1.3.16
PURPORT
After His appearance, Lord Krsna thought that He had not distributed the transcendental personal dealings with His devotees in dasya, sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya. One may understand the science of the Supreme Personality of Godhead from the Vedic literature and thus become a devotee of the Lord and worship Him within the regulative principles described in the scriptures, but one will not know in this way how Krsna is served by the residents of Vrajabhumi. One cannot understand the dealings of the Lord in Vrndavana simply by executing the ritualistic regulative principles mentioned in the scriptures.
By following scriptural injunctions one may enhance his appreciation for the glories of the Lord, but there is no chance for one to enter personal dealings with Him. Giving too much attention to understanding the exalted glories of the Lord reduces the chance of one's entering personal loving affairs with the Lord. To teach the principles of such loving dealings, the Lord decided to appear as Lord Caitanya.
In his Bhakti-sandarbha, Jiva Gosvami compares vaidhi and raganuga after explaining that raganuga does not depend on scriptural injunctions. Here are some highlights:
…Therefore, vaidhi-bhakti is weak because it depends on scriptural injunctions, whereas raganuga is very powerful being propelled independently. Therefore, when raganuga appears, it is marked by an absence of taste for anything unrelated to bhakti.
…Because raganuga is independent of any injunctions, the dasya and sakhya of raganuga are different from the dasya and sakhya of vaidhi.
…Therefore, in raganuga, the system prescribed for vaidhi-bhakti is not strictly followed, but only the methodology that relates to the ragatmika associates of the Lord. BS, Anuccheda 310
…So, because it is specifically the adoption of raganuga worship that quickly leads to this absorption in Him, Krsna has not spoken about vaidhi worship in regard to Himself in the eleventh canto of Srimad-bhagavatam, rather, the discussion of vaidhi there relates only to His four-armed feature. BS, Anuccheda 325
I refer readers to CC, Madhya-lila, chapters 8 (latter half), 22 (latter half) and 23 for more details on raganuga-bhakti from the discussions of Lord Caitanya with Ramananda Raya and Sanatana Gosvami, as well as SP’s purports. There are many more references in my book as well.
The above references alone answer the original question and prove beyond any doubt the importance of raganuga-bhakti for attaining Vraja prema. It is not a “separate activity” - it is the essence of Lord Caitanya’s teachings. Serving the mission of one’s guru is not tantamount to performing raganuga-bhakti. This is a serious misunderstanding of the teachings of our acaryas and Srila Prabhupada.
Those who are genuinely sincere will be guided by Krsna to the knowledge provided by His acaryas, so they can learn the actual processes for entering Vraja lila. The acaryas all teach that raganuga-bhakti is the direct method for entering Vraja lila. No other process is recommended. By giving your life to your guru, you will be blessed by him to receive and understand this knowledge which, by Krsna’s mercy, will lead you to Vraja. That’s how it works.
I don’t know who said Krsna will deny anyone entry into His Vraja dhama, but in any case, everyone must follow raganuga-bhakti to attain their individual relationship with Krsna. There are no short-cuts, exceptions or alternatives. Another point is that everyone who serves Srila Prabhupada is not going to be a krpa-siddha, ie: directly attain prema by special mercy without undergoing any other processes. We have all been trained by Srila Prabhupada specifically to be sadhana-siddhas. Everyone always has to take personal responsibility for their own advancement. There are no ‘Get out of jail free’ cards.
Krsna appeared as Lord Caitanya to give us the detailed process that all aspirants must follow to enter Vraja. It is the sadhana and bhajana of raganuga-bhakti. That’s what He taught us to do by His personal example as stated above, as did His primary followers. So Krsna doesn’t deny anyone the opportunity, providing they follow the teachings of His acaryas.
Did Srila Prabhupada chant his guru’s pranama prayers at the beginning of kirtans that he led? I don’t recall hearing him do that. He didn’t do it when he chanted Jaya Radha Madhava before each day’s Srimad Bhagavatam class. Considering all of the chanting Aindra did in the dhama and inspired all over the world, it hardly seems appropriate or beneficial to bring up a minor point like this as a criticism of his service.
It’s true that Krsna will guide you to your desired destination. He doesn’t deprive anyone, providing they follow the prescribed path of raganuga-bhakti as recommended by the acaryas. That is the key to success. If one develops a longing to go to Vrndavana, Krsna will guide them to the knowledge of raganuga-bhakti presented by Srila Prabhupada and our acaryas. If one learns and applies the sadhana and bhajana of raganuga-bhakti properly, one will surely be blessed with success.
When the acaryas speak about raganuga-bhakti, they don’t mention anything about “worrying” as part of the process. Neither do they talk about “not caring for your own bliss”. Those who are on the threshold of raganuga or are genuinely qualified to begin this sadhana, are generally not worried nor focused on their bliss - they are focused on their desired relationship with Krsna, which is what the path of bhakti is all about. They are especially focused on Krsna’s lila as is recommended by all the acaryas. Practicing raganuga-bhakti does not require that one must give up one’s service to the guru’s mission, or live a secluded life in Vrndavana.
Narottama dasa Thakura explains in his Prema-bhakti-candrika, that one must focus specifically on one’s desired relationship with Krsna in order to attain success:
I will always think of the devotional service of the lotus feet of the Divine Pair, and I will always remain attached to that. Whatever I think of during my spiritual practice (sadhana) I will attain in my siddha-deha when I reach perfection. This is the means of raga-bhakti. PBC, 55
The treasure I desire as a practitioner I will get when I attain my spiritual body (siddha-deha); it is just a question of being ripe or unripe. The ripe stage is the stage of pure devotion (prema-bhakti), and the unripe stage is the stage of practice (sadhana-bhakti). That is the essential truth about devotional principles. PBC, 56
Remembrance of the Lord’s pastimes is the life and soul of the devotee. Remembering the sweet loving pastimes of Radha and Krsna is the essence of all the processes. This is the goal of life, as well as the best means of achieving the goal. PBC, 61
Visvanatha Cakravarti’s commentary:
This is the essence of all instructions regarding rules and regulations. The remembrance of the pastimes of the Lord is the only process for achieving the goal of one’s life, relishing the transcendental rasas of the pastimes of Radha and Krsna. There is no higher goal or process than this. The remembrance of Sri Sri Radha-Krsna’s pastimes is the essence of all instructions given in the scriptures.
While there is some truth to these statements, it paints a partial picture. The essence of Vrndavana is a personal relationship with Krsna, saturated with prema - pure love. That becomes the foundational basis for experiencing rasa. That is what Vraja is all about - prema-bhakti-rasa. The selfless service aspect of the Vraja-vasis is incidental to their personal interactions with Krsna as His friends and lovers, etc. It is simply one of many unique characteristics of their personal dealings, rather than being a dominant mindset.
All throughout the lila literatures you will find numerous statements such as, “Krsna fulfilled all of their desires.” The Vraja-vasis have unlimited personal desires - they are not desireless, because no one can be desireless - it is the nature of the soul. However, all of their desires are motivated by their love for Krsna in the context of their specific relationship and the activities associated with that. They are not motivated by any selfish agendas. All of the Vraja-vasis are constantly immersed in the highest levels of the ecstasies and bliss of their prema, so of course they don’t have to think about that separately.
Raganuga means following (anuga) the raga (attraction, attachment, absorption) of the Vraja-vasis, specifically, a Vraja-vasi whose bhava/mood and seva/service are ideal examples of that which one desires in conjuction with Krsna. That is the only process for becoming one of the Vraja-vasis, whose bhakti is called, ragatmika-bhakti. From CC:
"If one worships the Lord on the path of spontaneous love (raganuga-marga) and goes to Vrndavana, he receives the shelter of Vrajendra-nandana, the son of Nanda Maharaja. CC, 2.8.221
PURPORT
In all, there are sixty-four items listed for the rendering of service unto Krsna, and these are the regulative principles enjoined in the sastras and given by the spiritual master. One has to serve Krsna according to these regulative principles, but if one develops spontaneous love for Krsna as exhibited in the activities of those who live in Vrajabhumi, one attains the platform of raganuga-bhakti. One who has developed this spontaneous love is eligible for elevation to the platform enjoyed by the inhabitants of Vrajabhumi.
In Vrajabhumi, there are no regulative principles set forth for Krsna's service. Rather, everything is carried out in spontaneous, natural love for Krsna. There is no question of following the principles of the Vedic system. Such principles are followed within this material world, and as long as one is on the material platform, he has to execute them.
However, spontaneous love of Krsna is transcendental. It may seem that the regulative principles are being violated, but the devotee is on the transcendental platform. Such service is called gunatita, or nirguna, for it is not contaminated by the three modes of material nature.
More from CC:
The word anghri-padma-sudha means 'associating intimately with Krsna. One can attain such perfection only by spontaneous love (raganuga) of God. One cannot obtain Krsna in Goloka Vrndavana simply by serving the Lord according to regulative principles (vidhi-marga). CC, 2.8.226
Unless one follows in the footsteps of the gopīs, he cannot attain the service of the lotus feet of Krsna, the son of Nanda Maharaja. If one is overcome by knowledge of the Lord's opulence, he cannot attain the Lord's lotus feet, even though he is engaged in devotional service. CC, 2.8.230
PURPORT
One can worship Laksmi-Narayana by the process of vidhi-marga, worshiping the Lord with regulative principles according to the instructions of the sastra and the spiritual master. But the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Radha-Krsna, cannot be directly worshiped by this process. The dealings between Radha and Krsna and the gopīs are devoid of the opulences of Laksmi-Narayana.
The process of vidhi-marga, following the regulative principles, is utilized in the worship of Laksmi-Narayana, whereas the process of spontaneous service — following in the footsteps of the gopis, who are the denizens of Vrndavana (raganuga) — is transcendentally more advanced and is the process whereby Radha and Krsna are worshiped.
One cannot attain this elevated position while worshiping the Lord in His opulence. Those attracted by the conjugal love between Radha and Krsna must follow in the footsteps of the gopis. Only then is it possible to enter into the Lord's service in Goloka Vrndavana and directly associate with Radha and Krsna.
More pramana about following a Vraja associate in raganuga-bhakti:
In his commentary in Ujjvala-nilamani, Visvanatha Cakravarti explains more about the nature of the primary relationship with one’s chosen sakhi leader:
It has previously been explained in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu that attaining the position of a gopi cannot take place without raganuga-bhakti. And without following after the nitya-siddha gopis, raganuga cannot be perfected. Raganuga means to follow after those gopis who have raga. Those three types who follow the nitya-siddhas attain perfection like the nitya-siddha gopis but they exist eternally in a slightly lesser position than the nitya-siddha gopis that they follow.
…According to the principles of raganuga-bhakti a person should follow a desired gopi while having affection for her not less than one’s affection for Krsna. If one follows a gopi while having less affection for her than for Krsna, it would not be much different from vaidhi-bhakti.
Even vaidhi-bhakti cannot be perfected without following devotees. Therefore, in raganuga-bhakti, persons who desire to follow a sakhi with more affection for Krsna must not have less affection for that sakhi than for Krsna. UN, 8.137 Commentary
Bhaktivinoda Thakura from Caitanya-siksamrta:
It was observed in the discussion about raganuga-bhakti that the person who is greedy for the mood of the inhabitants of Vraja performs his sadhana following after them with devotion. Thus, the aspirant for prema must learn the process for gaining entrance to the eternal pastimes of Radha and Krsna by the mercy of his guru. The devotee aspiring for madhura-rasa, by meditating on his identity as a gopi, attains entrance into the entourage of Radha. CS, Chapter 6, Part 5
From Jaiva-dharma:
Vrajanatha: What is the process of raganuga-bhakti?
Babaji: The sadhaka who has developed greed towards the beautiful service mood (seva) of a particular vraja-vasi always remembers and meditates on his seva to that personality. He is absorbed in the mutual pastimes of his beloved Sri Krsna with that vraja-vasi, and he constantly resides in Vraja, either physically or within the mind, having greed to obtain his or her bhava.
He follows that vraja-vasi’s example, and always renders seva in two ways: Externally, he serves as a practicing sadhaka, and internally he renders seva with the bhavas of his siddha-deha. This is the process of raganuga-bhakti.
In conclusion, it is overwhelmingly clear from these references that raganuga-bhakti is the “only” method for gaining entrance into Krsna’s Vraja pastimes and attaining prema on the level of the Vraja-vasis. Therefore, to imply that raganuga-bhakti is a “detail” or unnecessary is apasiddhanta. Peforming service to one’s guru in one’s sadhaka-deha (physical body) is also not equivalent to raganuga-bhakti. These are serious misconceptions.
These, and other misconceptions are dealt with in my book by examining the teachings of our acaryas on the subject of raganuga-bhakti. Lord Caitanya appeared specifically to teach us raganuga-bhakti by His personal example, and He instructed all of His followers to write books about these details. To minimize raganuga-bhakti in any way constitutes a grave misunderstanding of Lord Caitanya’s mission and the mission of Srila Prabhupada.
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Post by niscala on Sept 7, 2013 17:36:33 GMT -5
Some ideas on Hridayananda's - not as convincing as your own though! 1. Srila Prabhupada states many times that his faithful disciples who assist his mission will go back to Vrindavana. [/quote] He also made it clear that his mission was to create not just new devotees, but pure devotees, which he called "boiling the milk". When one devotee asked what would please him most, he replied "you becoming Krishna conscious". So one assists his mission most, by becoming Krsna conscious- at every moment- following the footsteps and instructions of the previous acaryas. SP himself recommended hearing, chanting and remembering the name, form, pastimes and entourage of Krishna. And when, by remembering, one gains attraction for the same, one enters the path of raga. Personally I have found it much easier to focus on chanting and much more enjoyable when I do it while thinking about the asta kaliya lila, after reading the same. This is not focussing on my enjoyment, but Krishna's- but it is enjoyable. It is the happy part of "chant and be happy" SP did not say "chant because its my order" He wanted us to be happy by chanting. This is the process- absorption. Why discourage devotees from being attracted to Krishna- which is what the raga path is about? Why discourage them from internal seva and following the instructions of the previous acaryas, which SP always encouraged us to do? After all, if Krsihna is all-attractive, why wouldn't He attract us all? I remember reading in Chaitanya Siksamrita by BVT that the soul has a natural tendency to evolve, and he explains what stops his progress. Comparing the evolution to climbing a ladder, attachment to the rung he is now at, and fear of the next step up- on the one hand- or progressing too quickly- pulling away from the rung beneath before being firmly situated on the rung above it- both hamper progress. So one should move from vaidhi to raganuga without hesitation, but only pull away from vaidhi when firmly situated in raga- spontaneous attraction. Similarly, one should pull away from varnasrama (the rung below vaidhi) only when one is firmly situated in vaidhi- but at the same time, one should progress to vaidhi. I love BVT's analyses- they make so much sense!
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Post by Uttamasloka on Sept 15, 2013 13:07:10 GMT -5
Niscala: Nice points. Here's a great quote from BVT's Caitanya-siksamrta, 3.1, that is very relevant to this discussion, of which you reminded me in your wonderful post in this forum:
On the path of gradual development, care must be taken to to become steadily elevated to a higher level, no matter what the present level. By good fortune, the tendency of the soul is to elevate itself gradually, but there are certainly obstacles along the path, and so the soul may fail to reach the ultimate goal. Those who desire to reach a higher standard must always be conscious of this fact.
In progressing from one level of life to the next, two things should be considered. The aspirant should be firmly fixed in one position to take a firm step to the next higher level. Then in order to advance successfully to the higher level, when one foot gives up the previous place, that foot must firmly fix itself in the higher level before the other foot can follow on to that new level. Simultaneously, the aspirant must give up attachment to the lower level, becoming firmly established on the higher level. By moving too quickly, the aspirant will fall. By moving too slowly the results will come slowly.
…Some people lament that they have not attained devotion to Krsna but at the same time they do not make any real attempt to raise themselves to the level of Krsna bhakti. They remain bound to one of the levels and do not attempt to progress to the practices of the next higher level - this is known as niyamagraha. If people stop at one stage, how can they expect to progress to the top?
Thus, many devotees on the level of vaidhi-bhakti make no attempt to progress to bhava bhakti, but then lament they have not attained bhava. Again many people remain attached to the rules of varnasrama and are indifferent to bhava and prema. This bondage to one level is an obstacle to their advancement.
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Post by bhagavatpuranadas on Sept 18, 2013 15:08:39 GMT -5
¨First, I would like to honor His Holiness Hrdayananda Dasa Goswami for his jolly disposition and his determination to assist his glorious master in the best way he might. Since his efforts have helped me in the past, I will attempt to reciprocate – just as we can worship the sun with a small lamp, or the Ganges with a bit of her own water. Regarding m.dandavats.com/?p=753, HDG replied to the question without correcting its major flaw. The question was based on the flawed conception that Raganuga sadhana entails “following the vrajavasis in the siddha deha, NOT the sadhaka deha.” This is perfectly wrong. The correct understanding, given from very early in ISKCON history by our founder acarya A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada in Nectar of Devotion is expressed originally by Sri Rupa Goswami’s Sanskrit: seva sadhaka rupena siddha rupena catra hi. In Raganuga Sadhana our seva certainly (“hi”) takes place simultaneously in BOTH (“ca”) the internal (“siddha-rupena”) and external (“sadhaka-rupena”) expressions of service. The entire rest of the question and answer is based on this misconceived notion of a dichotomy between internal and external practices, between preaching and practice. This is certainly neither the philosophy of Sri Rupa, nor any of his representatives, especially Srila Prabhupada and his disciple Aindra Prabhu. The entire main thrust of Aindra Prabhu’s book, for example, is to make this very point. Instead of correcting the basic flaw in the question, HDG conformed to the flaw and answered the question as if it were valid. It was hopefully just an oversight on his part, as we tend to believe he must be aware of these essential, fundamental definitions. Besides this all pervading error, we would address a few other significant issues, following the numbered point in HDG’s original statement. 1. It is clearly stated by Visvanatha Cakravarti (for example in Madhurya Kadambini), Bhaktivinode Thakur (for example, in Jaiva Dharma) and Srila Prabhupada (for example in Krishna Book and Nectar of Devotion) that the only path to Vrndavana is to follow the spontaneous, unbounded loving sentiments of an eternal resident of Vrndavana. Those disciples who “faithfully assist his mission” will therefore do so, as conscientious disciples, and thus attain Sri Vrndavana Krishna Lila. It is not that by sweeping the temple or balancing the books but not chanting with the mood of pure love that one can “faithfully assist the movement” to a degree that warrants full reward. Partial assistance warrants partial rewards, I.e. such persons will eventually comprehend the essential importance of raganuga sadhana in the active preaching movement and will practice accordingly. THEN they will have fully faithfully, fully assisted the full movement of Srila Prabhupada, and will get the full reward: Krishna in Vrndavana. 2. We agree fully with the second point, that Raganuga Sadhana and the service of Srila Prabhupada’s mission are identical. 3. We agree fully with the third point (that preaching is an integral part of Raganuga Sadhana) and would like to remind or perhaps inform HDG that this is in fact the main theme Aindra Prabhu believed in and attempted to communicate in his book. 4. Raganuga Sadhana is not a “separate” practice as explained at the outset. Thus the statement that Bhagavatam does not recommend it “as a separate practice” is highly misleading. The Bhagavatam is cent-percent a book of rasa from start to finish, promoting the love of the vrajavasis for Krishna as the highest spiritual ideal, and constantly advising, inspiring and instructing us to cultivate a similar service mood by constant Samkirtan – hearing and chanting about Krishna and the loving services the vrajavasis share with him. This is the sum and substance of the Bhagavatam as well as the sum and substance of Raganuga sadhana – thus the two Bhagavatam and Raganuga sadhana are inseparable (as made crystal clear in the logo Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati instituted for the Gaudiya Math, for example) 5. The intimate corners of Vraja dhama are denied even to Brahma, Shiva and Narada, what to speak of us whose only credit may be that we have a glorious master. Vraja prema is the rarest commodity in existence (“sudurlabha”) because it controls Krishna (“Sri Krishna karshini”), therefore it is only given to a very rare few. Simply signing up for an organization and following its external morals will not convince Krishna to give us the keys to his most private abode, Sri Vrndavana. Rather this external adherence will purify us so that at some future point in this life or the next, we can comprehend what raganuga sadhana is, and understand the preaching mission more deeply – recognizing the inseparable nature of deep practice and deep preaching. Then, by serving the preaching mission in the true raganuga Marga, we can hope to qualify to beg for the mercy that opens the gateways even to the outermost edges of Sri Vrndavana Dhama. 6. It appears that HDG does not know the primary theme of Aindra’s book, therefore we doubt that he actually read it seriously. Thus we would advise him not to critique its content. For persons, perhaps like Maharaja, who could not read the book due to being turned off the the passionate ferocity if it – we will soon be presenting “A Book About Aindra’s Book” which will make it all much easier and clearer to appreciate. Additionally we will soon be releasing an authorized biography of Aindra Prabhu which will set the passionate and colorful figure in good context. We invite and implore leaders and influential persons such as HDG to be merciful unto us by enjoying these forthcoming books and thoroughly discussing their content with us. Regarding kirtan: HDG seems to imply that Aindra Prabhu disregards Srila Prabhupada. This could not be a more painful thing to hear nor could it be any further from the truth. HDG’s argument is that he does not hear Aindra begin his kirtana with “Nama om…” Apparently he forgot that when he hears Aindra Prabhu, Aindra is performing akhanda kirtan (“unbroken / 24-hour kirtan”) – in which it is a requirement that the maha mantra not be mixed with any other mantras. It appears HDG has not heard Aindra Prabhu lead other kirtana such as mangala arati, which he begins with “Nama om”. Perhaps HDG should have visited Vrndavana more often to have had this opportunity? Being that he usually does Akhanda kirtan without the liberty to sing other mantras to Prabhupada and Pancha-tattva, he developed deep realizations how the maha mantra itself includes prayers to the spiritual master and the Pancha-tattva. We will make this more clear in the books we have mentioned above, please enjoy reading them. 7 -8. We agree entirely. What to speak of Vrndavana, there is not a soul in all of Vaikuntha who has any significant self-interest. The reason for desiring Vrndavana is not for personal happiness, but because Krishna desires Vrajavasis. He is addicted to their superpowerful love. With the desire to give Krishna what he wants most, we earnestly desire Vrndavana Bhakti. There is nothing selfish about it.¨ Written on behalf of our Aindra Dasa By an insignificant and unworthy servant, Vraja Kishor Das.
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Post by giridhari on Sept 21, 2013 5:30:25 GMT -5
Hridayananda Maharaja has asked me to post this reply to Uttamasloka Prabhu here:
My main point: We are not denying that a very advanced devotee follows in the footsteps of a particular Vraja-vasi. The issue is simply this: can one devote oneself to Srila Prabhupada's mission, in spontaneous devotion and ecstasy, confident that when Krishna and Prabhupada so desire it, They will guide that devotee to follow a Vraja-vasi? Or MUST one necessarily take the initiative to practice and pursue Raga-bhakti?
1. "It should be understood that “Assisting his mission” does not in and of itself directly lead to entering Vraja lila."
That depends on how Krishna reciprocates with one assisting the mission. Krishna may reveal one's relationship with Him, while one is serving the mission. Krishna may fix one's mind on Vraja while one is preaching or serving in other ways. Of course in that case one might say that such a devotee is practicing Raga-bhakti. So be it. But the practice need not be formal or declared. In fact Prabhupada warns us against publicizing our practice of Raga.
2. JG, VCT: "Those qualified for vaidhi-bhakti are dependent on the rules of scripture and favorable use of logic until the appearance of bhava-bhakti." BRS, 1.2.293
Clearly an ecstatic preacher may NOT be dependent on scripture rules and logic. Citing this quote begs the question.
3. "Doing one’s service spontaneously is not considered by the acaryas to be raganuga-bhakti."VCT: 'In performing sadhana-bhakti, the vaidhi-bhakti practitioner will depend on scriptural injunctions and favorable use of logic until the appearance of rati (bhava). After the appearance of rati, he no longer depends on these things. However, as soon as the greed manifests in a person (for attaining a bhava similar to that of the vraja-vasis), and he develops an inclination for raga-bhakti, the practitioner of raganuga-bhakti does not depend any longer on scriptural rules and logic. Thus, it is greatly superior.'
More circular reasoning. The Acaryas rule out vaidhi-bhakti as sufficient. Preaching is not always vaidhi-bhakti. Therefore the quote does not apply.
4. "Preaching, in and of itself, is not raganuga-bhakti, nor is it an inferior activity. It is part of kirtanam, and thus it is an anga (limb) of both vaidhi-sadhana-bhakti and raganuga-sadhana-bhakti."
This is again circular reasoning. Preaching is certainly only one activity that one can perform in Raganuga-bhakti, however whether one must perform a formal, structured Raga process is the subject under discussion. One must show not only that Acaryas require this or that procedure, but that these requirements are absolute requirements. We follow Guru, Sadhu, and Shastra. Where is Shastra that confirms the absolute necessity of a formal, structured path of Raganuga-bhakti?
5. "These are incorrect statements and are in fact, apasiddhanta. First of all, every acarya has extensively quoted SB to substantiate their assertions when discussing raganuga-bhakti in their books."
Unfortunately, we were not given a single Bhagavatam verse that explicitly requires a formal, structured path of Raganuga-bhakti. So the question remains. A further question: Did the Acaryas quote SB to show that Acarya teachings are consistent with Bhagavatam, or rather to show that Bhagavatam explicitly, literally, requires such a formal Raga-marga? Kindly provide shastra to show it is the latter, not the former. For example, we are given this CC verse:
"Everywhere in the world people worship Me according to scriptural injunctions (vidhi-bhakti). But simply by following such regulative principles one cannot attain the loving sentiments of the devotees in Vraja bhumi." CC, 1.3.15
Obviously this verse does not rule out spontaneous devoted service, without a formal, structured Raga practice. The verse simply says that rules are not enough. We already knew that, from Upadesamrta: niyama-Agrahah. To claim this CC verse as requiring formal Raga practice is clearly circular reasoning, begging the question.
Similarly, Prabhupada's purport to this verse is quoted. But in all these quotes, we simply hear that following rules is not enough, one must develop spontaneous love. Neither the CC verse, nor the purport, addresses our issue: is a formal Raga practice required? Clearly many advanced preachers are not at all dependent on scriptural injunctions and favorable logic. They are spontaneously, ecstatically serving.
6. Those who are genuinely sincere will be guided by Krsna to the knowledge provided by His acaryas, so they can learn the actual processes for entering Vraja lila.
What if that is already happening? What if there is more than one modality, within authorized bhakti-yoga, to reach Vraja-lila? Again, where does clear, explicit Shastra require a specific Raga procedure?
7. "Did Srila Prabhupada chant his guru’s pranama prayers at the beginning of kirtans that he led?"
No, but he did chant it at the END of EVERY kirtana in the Prema-dhvani prayers. Did Aindra Prabhu do that after every kirtana? If so, I sincerely apologize for my statement.
8. "Narottama dasa Thakura explains in his Prema-bhakti-candrika, that one must focus specifically on one’s desired relationship with Krsna in order to attain success: 'I will always think of the devotional service of the lotus feet of the Divine Pair, and I will always remain attached to that.vWhatever I think of during my spiritual practice (sadhana) I will attain in my siddha-deha when I reach perfection. This is the means of raga-bhakti.'"
Basically, Narottama Dasa Thakura makes two points here: 1. As in Gita 8.5-6, if we meditate on Krishna in a certain way, we will attain Krishna in that way. 2. Always thinking of Krishna in a certain way is Raga-bhakti.
Narottama does not state: 1. This constitutes a formal process beyond constant remembrance. 2. One cannot think of Krishna in a certain way in the course of preaching.
9. Quoting Prabhupada's purport to CC 2.8.221: …if one develops spontaneous love for Krsna as exhibited in the activities of those who live in Vrajabhumi, one attains the platform of raganuga-bhakti. One who has developed this spontaneous love is eligible for elevation to the platform enjoyed by the inhabitants of Vrajabhumi.
Note that Prabhupada does not specify how one develops that spontaneous love.
10. Quoting Prabhupada's purport to CC 2.8.230: One cannot attain this elevated position while worshiping the Lord in His opulence. Those attracted by the conjugal love between Radha and Krsna must follow in the footsteps of the gopis. Only then is it possible to enter into the Lord's service in Goloka Vrndavana and directly associate with Radha and Krsna.
Again, we are not disputing whether or not a very advanced devotee follows in the footsteps of the gopis, or of a particular Vraja-vasi. The issue is simply this: can one simply devote oneself to Srila Prabhupada's mission, in spontaneous devotion and ecstasy, confident that when Krishna so desires it, He will guide that devotee to follow a Vraja-vasi? Or must one necessarily take the initiative to practice and pursue such meditation and following?
Thus, quoting from Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Caitanya-siksamrta: “Thus, the aspirant for prema must learn the process for gaining entrance to the eternal pastimes of Radha and Krsna by the mercy of his guru. The devotee aspiring for madhura-rasa, by meditating on his identity as a gopi, attains entrance into the entourage of Radha.” CS, Chapter 6, Part 5
The same question arises. Doesn't this quote also authorize a devotee to focus fully on spreading Srila Prabhupada's mission, knowing that Prabhupada will eventually bless that devotee with everything required to enter Vraja? We are waiting for evidence from Shastra that one must take the initiative to formally matriculate into a Raga course.
Conclusion:
Consider Prabhupada's words from Nectar of Devotion [NOD] Chapter 16:
"A devotee who is actually advanced in Krsna consciousness, who is constantly engaged in devotional service, should not manifest himself, even though he has attained perfection. The idea is that he should always continue to act as a neophyte devotee as long as his material body is there. Activities in devotional service under regulative principles must be followed even by the pure devotee. But when he realizes his actual position in relationship with the Lord, he can, along with the discharging of regulative service, think within himself of the Lord, under the guidance of a particular associate of the Lord, and develop his transcendental sentiments in following that associate." [NOD 16]
Clearly an advanced devotee continues his normal service and sadhana, but spontaneously, lovingly meditates on his or her relationship with Krishna, under the guidance of a Vraja-vasi. Again there is no mention here of a formal, structured procedure. Spontaneous bhakti may occur spontaneously, which should be obvious.
Finally, in NOD Chapter 18, Rupa Gosvami describes the characteristics of a person who has actually developed his ecstatic love for Krsna. The characteristics are as follows: (1) He is always anxious to utilize his time in the devotional service of the Lord. He does not like to be idle. He wants service always, twenty-four hours a day, without deviation. (2) He is always reserved and perseverant. (3) He is always detached from all material attraction. (4) He does not long for any material respect in return for his activities. (5) He is always certain that Krsna will bestow His mercy upon him. (6) He is always very eager to serve the Lord faithfully. (7) He is very much attached to the chanting of the holy names of the Lord. (8) He is always eager to describe the transcendental qualities of the Lord. (9) He is very pleased to live in a place where the Lord's pastimes are performed, e.g., Mathura, Vrindavana or Dvaraka.
In fact we observe these qualities in advanced preachers.
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Post by Uttamasloka on Sept 21, 2013 13:58:35 GMT -5
Giridhari prabhu: Thanks so much for posting Hrdayananda Maharaja's responses here. I appreciate it. Please convey my greetings, respect and gratitude to my old friend, for his willingness to participate in this most valuable discussion of these important topics, which is beneficial for all involved, especially the audience.
I'll compile my responses over the next few days and post them here, so stay tuned.
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Post by mahashaktidas on Sept 21, 2013 13:59:16 GMT -5
My dear HDG and fellow Vaishnavas,
Please accept my koti dandavats. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
The primary question at hand is whether present day Gaudiya Vaishnavas within ISKCON need to practice the structure of raganuga bhakti as defined in the literature of our predecessor acharyas in order to attain the shores of Vraja in either or both this life and the life after. This is a fundamental and important question because it is directly related to the outcome of one's sadhana. On one hand, Uttamasloka prabhu has taken the position of a Gaudiya traditionalist, relying fully on the previous works of our great acharyas starting with Srila Prabhupada and working backwards. He has attempted to clearly show that raga bhakti is an essential part of our tradition, without which there is no intrinsic meaning to vaidhi bhakti. Rather then subjectively interpret the practice of raga bhakti to suit a particular class of men, Uttamasloka prabhu has boldly presented this oft misunderstood ideology in a clear and concise way for those who want to know what is what. If you read his book, The Realization and Manifestation of One's Eternal Identity, our previous acharyas give profuse directions for the subtle meditative practice of raga bhakti.
Rupa Goswami's Nectar of Instruction with purport by Srila Prabhupada clearly states that an uttama bhakta must descend to the madhyama position in order to preach and spread the cult of bhakti. The spontaneous events of transcendental love that the pure devotee experiences is not for ordinary persons to understand. For the common people there is basic aham brahmasmi preaching and for the faithful initiate, there is vaidhi bhakti culminating in raga bhakti.
A faithful ISKCON devotee should at some point develop an inclination to serve the Divine Couple spontaneously. That is the point of chanting. If someone thinks differently, then I wholeheartedly disagree. Maharaj takes the viewpoint that advanced preachers are finding bliss and complete satisfaction in preaching, in pushing on the preaching work of making and training devotees. He alludes to the fact that the practice of raga bhakti is perhaps selfish and self serving. Our Srila Prabhupada makes the point that we are not bhajanandis, but goshianandis; we are preachers, not babajis. This directive from Srila Prabhupada had its foundation in the words and practice of his guru, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada. Therefore, I can understand why HDG feels compelled to uphold the mood of preaching and downplay the necessity of a structured form of raga bhakti, which many would compare to the babajis of Vraja.
Nowadays, if anyone alludes to raga bhakti, they are branded a heretic and a sahajiya. I have seen this with Uttamasloka's book and also with Srila Narayan Maharaj. So, we have an interesting divergence of siddhantic application and sides have been drawn within the Vaishnava community, each group calling the other a variety of offensive names.
I would have hoped that HDG had done a better scholarly job of bridging the gap rather then widening it. He is in a favorable position to do so, not I. Nonetheless, I am impelled to state a synergistic solution to the problem. As per Uttamasloka's book, the practice of raga bhakti begins when someone is inclined to serve the Divine Couple in a particular rasa. This begins the personal internal journey of that fortunate soul who by his meditative practice actually creates his own siddha deha which when fully developed becomes his eternal personality in the spiritual world. From the rasa sastra, we see the importance of the devotee's personal contribution toward creating his cherished service. Although Krsna can suddenly bestow complete prem bhakti on an aspirant, it is not to be expected. If someone is dedicated to preaching, it does not mean he is necessarily advanced internally. The synergistic solution lies in not hiding the practice of raganuga bhakti but in presenting it in an authoritative way. Even after such presentation, it does not make it any easier to practice but it will add exponentially to one's character and depth. An advanced ISKCON preacher should be familiar with the practice of raga bhakti, not ignorant of it. In conclusion, raga bhakti can act as a great motivator in preaching because it awakens one's most primal transcendental desires of selfless spiritual love. Actual love of Radha Krsna translates more effectively into successful widespread preaching because the preacher is imbued with selflessness.
I beg forgiveness for my lack of a scholarly presentation with the customary sastric quotes. I am a peacemaker, at heart, with a strong loyalty to tradition. I want to see that preachers and teachers go on with their missionary work while recognizing and preserving the most sacred treasure of Gaudiya Vaishnavism - raganuga bhakti.
Radhe Radhe!
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Post by shishirkatote on Sept 21, 2013 15:30:13 GMT -5
Answer to the question in the original article:
" It is mentioned in Jaiva Dharma that without practicing raganuga bhakti (which specifically refers to following the vrajavasis in our siddha deha and not sadhaka deha) one cannot go back to Krsnaloka or Goloka Vrindavan but one can go to Dwaraka."
Following after the inhabitants of Vraja, one should perform service in one’s physical body and in one’s siddha body, with a desire for a particular bhäva. (BRS 1.2.295)
Jlva Gosväml’s Commentary:
Sädhaka-rüpa refers to the physical body of the practitioner. Siddha-rupa refers to the body which is suitable for one’s desired service, and which has been developed by internal meditation. One serves with a desire for the particular bhäva or rati of an associate of Krsna situated in Vraja (tad-bhäva-lipsunä). One should follow in the footsteps of the dear associates of Krsna in Vraja (vraja-lokä) and others loyal to them.
Visvanatha CakravartI Thakura’s Commentary:
One performs service with sädhaka-rupa—the present body—and with the siddha-rupa—the body which is suitable for serving Vraja Krsna in the particular type of rati or bhäva one desires, and which appears through inner contemplation, with a desire for a particular rati directed to one’s beloved Krsna situated in Vrndävana (tad-bhäva-lipsunä).One should follow after the dear devotees of Krsna such as Rädhä, Lalitä, Visäkhä, Sri Rüpamanjari and those following after them—persons such as Sri Rüpa and Sanätana Gosvämis (vraja-lokänusärataH). Accordingly,one should perform mental service in one’s siddha-rupa, following after the examples of Sri Radha, Lalita, Visakha, Sri Rupamanjari and others. In one’s physical body, one should perform services using one’s body, following after persons such as Sri Rupa and Sanatana Gosvamis situated in Vraja. By the word vraja- loka, one should understand persons situated in Vraja — Radha, Candravali and others. Following after them, one should perform service using one’s physical body also.
"According to my understanding from reading Srila Prabhupada’s and other devotee’s books, I believe to serve and surrender to the Guru’s mission in the sadhaka rupa is as good as performing raganuga bhakti."
Which book of SP are you talking about? Quote it. Have you ever come across this?
Rāgānugā, rāga-bhakti is executed following the footprints of the devotees in Vṛndāvana. That is called rāga-bhakti. Kṛṣṇa's personal associates. Not to become directly Kṛṣṇa's personal associate, but following the footprints of Kṛṣṇa's eternal associates, we can come to the stage of rāga-bhakti. That is called parā-bhakti. That parā-bhakti is required. (Lecture: Srimad Bhagavatam (Bombay, January 12, 1975))
Better you understand SP through Rupa Goswami, not your own mind. You are not superior to Rupa Goswami.
"I do not consider it separate although Aindra Prabhu condemns this type of approach and mentions that it needs to be cultivated separately."
HG Aindra Prabhu quotes BRS. Can you quote anything to prove this point? First look at yourself. If you want to criticize Aindra prabhu, speak with pramana.
Response to HDG's Answer:
1. If preaching is exclusively raganuga bhakti then will preachers of madhva sampradaya also reach vraja, not vaikuntha? So it can be anga of both, vaidhi bhakti or raganuga bhakti. Off course by preaching one gets mercy of Prabhupada and mercy is the only way to attain raganuga bhakti.
There are two causes for the appearance of greed: The mercy of God or the mercy of another anuragi devotee. There are again two kinds of mercy bestowed by a devotee: praktana and adhunika. Praktana means mercy bestowed by a raganuga in a previous life, and adhunika is mercy bestowed in the present birth. The praktana devotee takes shelter of the lotus feet of a raganuga guru after the greed has arisen in him, and the adhunika will get that greed only after having surrendered to the feet of such a guru. It is said (in Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu): “The only causes of the appearance of greed is the mercy of Krishna or His devotee. Therefore some call the path of raganuga bhakti pushti marga (the path of mercy).” (Raga-vartma-candrika 1.6)
2. He says: "Most preachers I know are becoming more and more attached to Vrindavan, not Mathura or Dvaraka."
It is his own speculation. ISKCON has a great temple only in Vrindavana so naturally they stay at vrindavana due to better facilities. "Attachment to Vrindavana" is not as cheap as he thinks.
3. He says: " The Bhagavatam does not explicitly state that we must practice a separate Raga-bhakti. "
Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu of Shrila Rupa Goswami, which describes the devotion propounded by the Shrimad Bhagavatam, provides the following three verses: “the devotee should remember Krishna and an eternally liberated devotee of Krishna of his own choice. He should always live in Vraja and be attached to topics concerning Krishna and that favourite devotee of his.” (1.2.294) “Both in his material and in his mentally conceived spiritual body he should follow in the footsteps of the people of Vraja, always desiring their moods and activities.” (1.2.295) “The practitioner of raganuga bhakti should also perform all the limbs of vaidhi bhakti, such as hearing and chanting, as far as they are favourable. This is what the learned say.” (1.2.296) These three verses explain the position of the kamanuga devotee (those serving in a conjugal mood). (Raga vartma candrika 1.10)
For me, BRS is the authority. The above quote proves that instructions of SB are stated in BRS. You can also see in the verse that raganuga bhakti has a diiference procedure from vaidhi bhakti. I don't know from where he has concluded that seperate raganuga bhakti is not necessary to be practiced.
Though prescribed in the scriptures, activities of deity worship such as worshipping Rukmini, meditation of Dvärakä, performing mudräs and nyäsas, or identifying oneself with the Lord and worshipping oneself, should be rejected. (Durgama-Sangamani-Tika 1.2.296)
A person who serves on the path of vaidhi-bhakti with a desire for a conjugal relationship with the Lord and a high position, but without desire for the gopis’type of love, after some time becomes a queen in Dvaraka.(BRS 1.2.303)
The word susthu (excellent) indicates that the desire is tinged with the bhava like that of a queen of Dvaraka, rather than with the conjugal bhava of a maidservant. Serving according to vaidhi-bhakti, though using mantras for meditating on the love of the gopis, and of course, using mantras and procedures for meditating on the love of the queens of Dvaraka, they will achieve the bhava of the queens rather than the gopis’. (Bhakti-sara-pradarsini-tika 1.2.303)
Refer to Raga-vartma-candrika 1.12 for more detailed description.
These things prove that raganuga bhakti should be practiced separately.
4. He says: "Bhaktivinoda Thakura perfectly spoke for his time. Then Krishna sent Prabhupada to make a full presentation to the world. Are we really to believe that Krishna will deny His Vraja-dhama to those who give their lives to His pure devotee, Prabhupada? That would be a ludicrous conclusion."
What he says is a ludicrous conclusion? Also a strong offence to SP. According to him, without following raganuga bhakti but following Prabhupada one can go to vraja dhama? So he means raganuga bhakti is different from following prabhupada. Was Prabhupada vaidhi guru?
If BVT spoke for his time, can you explain, what was the reason raganuga bhakti was to be practiced separately in that time and not now?
Madhya 19.193: "Pure attachment without reverence is found in Goloka Vṛndāvana. Attachment in which awe andreverence are prominent is found in the two cities Mathurā and Dvārakā and in Vaikuṇṭha.
"Neither the goddess of fortune, Lakṣmī, nor even the damsels of the heavenly kingdom can attain the facilities of the damsels of Vrajabhūmi-and what to speak of others." (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.47.60))
"If one worships the Lord on the path of spontaneous love and goes to Vṛndāvana, he receives the shelter of Vrajendra-nandana, the son of Nanda Mahārāja. (CC Madhya 8.221)
5. He says: "I suggest you read the Bhagavatam 6.17.28, which states that those actually devoted to the Lord do not worry about where they are going. "
Even though 6 goswamis descended to the material world to serve Krsna, their manjari forms were present in vraja serving Krsna. If you don't care for where you go, then why are you talking about "attachment to vraja"?
Remembering the Vrndavana form of Krsna and His dear associates who have inclinations for service similar to one’s own, absorbing oneself in hearing topics related to them, one should always live in Vraja. (BRS 1.2.294)
One should remember the most dear form of Krsna (prestham krsnam), the son of Nanda of kaisora age, and the devotees of that particular form of Krsna (asya janam), who have the same type of desires (for serving Krsna) as oneself (nija-samihitam). Remembering such devotees, one should live in Vraja. If possible,vone should physically live in Vrndavana, the place where Krsna resided as Nanda’s son. If one cannot do that, one should live there mentally.(Bhakti-sara-pradarsini-tika 1.2.294)
6. He says: "So if you are serving Prabhupada and you long to go to Vrindavana, why would Krishna send you somewhere else?"
Those who have a desire to taste the sweetness of Radha and Krsna in Vrndavana, but worship according to vaidhi-bhakti, using nyasas and mudras, do not attain Krsna in Dvaraka with Rukmini, because they do not have that aspiration. Nor can they attain Radha and Krsna in Vrndavana, because they lack the worship on the path of raga. Therefore, since they have a predominance of awareness of Krsna as the Lord (aisvarya-jnana) in worship according to the path of rules (vidhi), they attain Radha and Krsna in a portion of Vrndavana called Goloka, in correspondence to that worship. It is understood that they do not attain the Vrndavana of pure sweetness. (Bhakti-sara-pradarsini-tika 1.2.303)
If you really want to serve Prabhupada, you will never go against BRS. When Prabhupada says, we should follow 6 goswamis, we should not invent our own ways to bhakti. We must practice separate raganuga bhakti. If you still keep following vaidhi bhakti, you wont reach vraja.
Throughout the article, HDG rarely quotes anything and if he does so, it is misinterpreted by him. I am surprised to see he has not quoted a single verse from BRS.
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Post by niscala on Sept 21, 2013 21:30:30 GMT -5
HM: We are not denying that a very advanced devotee follows in the footsteps of a particular Vraja-vasi. The issue is simply this: can one devote oneself to Srila Prabhupada's mission, in spontaneous devotion and ecstasy, confident that when Krishna and Prabhupada so desire it, They will guide that devotee to follow a Vraja-vasi? Or MUST one necessarily take the initiative to practice and pursue Raga-bhakti?
It is not one or the other, rather the second is a natural consequence of the first. When one is guided from within to follow a Vraja-vasi, after feeling some ecstacy in spontaneous devotion then one takes the initiative to follow that vrja vasi, and that is called the pursuance of raga bhakti. Some ecstasy and spontaneity may be experienced before this step. Bhaktivinode Thakura in his Sri Chaitanya Siksamrita has said that one must take the initiative of going from one step to the next- such as vaidhi to raganuga, but one can take that step upwards while still attached to the former rung, and when one is firmly situated on the higher rung, then one should release one's grip on the lower rung. So one can be following vaidhi bhakti and ragaunga bhakti both, for a while, but ultimately one has to be governed only by deep attraction, total absorption in the path of attraction, for the Thakura has also explained that one's progress is stopped when even after being situated on the higher rung, one maintains attachment to the lower rung. Raga, as I understand it, does not means spontaneity, but attachment and attraction. This attraction is nurtured by hearing the pastimes of the Lord, by chanting and remembering them, and by taking association of others who are on this path.
USP: 1. "It should be understood that “Assisting his mission” does not in and of itself directly lead to entering Vraja lila." HM: That depends on how Krishna reciprocates with one assisting the mission. Krishna may reveal one's relationship with Him, while one is serving the mission. Krishna may fix one's mind on Vraja while one is preaching or serving in other ways. Of course in that case one might say that such a devotee is practicing Raga-bhakti. So be it. But the practice need not be formal or declared. In fact Prabhupada warns us against publicizing our practice of Raga.
First, it is not up to Krsna to fix our mind- he tells Arjuna “Fix your mind on me” He does not say, “Just wait around, and I will do it for you” Of course, as Arjuna declares the mind is restless, and after repeated attempts and failures, feeling deeply attached and attracted to the Lord, one may cry out to have ones mind fixed and never deviated from His lotus feet, and He will facilitate it. But such bhakti is rare, and the price is a desperate sense of longing or greed for it. One feels one has no spiritual merit at all and helplessly begs the Lord- in His manifestation as the most merciful Radaharani. That is why so many acaryas considered themselves beggars. They begged, and begged and begged again. That is the gate of entrance into raga- known as lobha.
USP: "Doing one’s service spontaneously is not considered by the acaryas to be raganuga-bhakti."VCT: 'In performing sadhana-bhakti, the vaidhi-bhakti practitioner will depend on scriptural injunctions and favorable use of logic until the appearance of rati (bhava). After the appearance of rati, he no longer depends on these things. However, as soon as the greed manifests in a person (for attaining a bhava similar to that of the vraja-vasis), and he develops an inclination for raga-bhakti, the practitioner of raganuga-bhakti does not depend any longer on scriptural rules and logic. Thus, it is greatly superior.' HM: More circular reasoning. The Acaryas rule out vaidhi-bhakti as sufficient. Preaching is not always vaidhi-bhakti. Therefore the quote does not apply.
If an ecstatic devotee is not dependent on rules and logic, what is he dependent on? What motivates him and keeps him inspired? If it is constant remembrance of the pastimes of the Lord, and aspiring to be part of those pastimes, by body, mind and words, then his devotion is inspired on the raga path. Only he will know it. But it is a conscious step that must be taken. Just as it is a conscious step to eradicate anarthas. One may be preaching simply to induce fame as a great preacher. That may make one enthusiastic, not able to wait for a second to dive back into the preaching field, and appearing to be very spontaneous. After recognizing one's ulterior motivations, one may become very much devastated and feel helpless and unmotivated. At that time, one needs good association, to help him find a deeper source of inspiration. Associating with the best devotees of all through hearing of their spotless devotion, how they render it, their moods and their ecstasies, their total absorption and gaining attraction for the same, one gives up the desire for fame as one gives up stool, and one's enthusiasm and spontaneity is then well-situated -away from the illusory nature.
The proof is we have seen so many “sold-out” “spontaneous” and “ecstatic” preachers in the past. Where are they all now? They reached anartha nivritti, became hopelessly disgusted with themselves, because no one had the guts to tell them that they were not hopeless, they had just reached a threshold and need to move through it to the next level- nistha bhakti in raga. Such preaching takes guts- because how can there be any notion of further progress when serving (externally) in ISKCON is seen as all that is necessary? The general misconception is that if you lose enthusiasm for ISKCON service, you just weren't sincere in the first place.
USP: "Preaching, in and of itself, is not raganuga-bhakti, nor is it an inferior activity. It is part of kirtanam, and thus it is an anga (limb) of both vaidhi-sadhana-bhakti and raganuga-sadhana-bhakti." HM: This is again circular reasoning. Preaching is certainly only one activity that one can perform in Raganuga-bhakti, however whether one must perform a formal, structured Raga process is the subject under discussion. One must show not only that Acaryas require this or that procedure, but that these requirements are absolute requirements. We follow Guru, Sadhu, and Shastra. Where is Shastra that confirms the absolute necessity of a formal, structured path of Raganuga-bhakti?
The requirement as an absolute necessity was given by Srila Prabhupada when he said “One must follow in the footsteps of the previous acaryas” The word “must” indicates absolute necessity. These previous acaryas, such as Visvanatha Chakravarti Thakura, are our direct sampradayaic chain. Their writings are our sastra- but they are only to be read at a certain stage of development. Without going through anartha nivritti and realising that one is completely foolish, helpless, inadequate, impotent and utterly dependent on the mercy of the Lord, can one be firmly situated as das-das-anudas- and thus be rid of the propensity to enjoy those intimate pastimes, and instead desire to serve them, in some capacity.
USP:"These are incorrect statements and are in fact, apasiddhanta. First of all, every acarya has extensively quoted SB to substantiate their assertions when discussing raganuga-bhakti in their books." HM:Unfortunately, we were not given a single Bhagavatam verse that explicitly requires a formal, structured path of Raganuga-bhakti.
It is structured, as there are various levels, described in Nectar of Devotion. Each level has its own symptoms, but is it formal? Who said anything about formality? It is the giving up of everything formal and following one's heart after throwing oneself at Their feet and begging for Their mercy.
HM:S o the question remains. A further question: Did the Acaryas quote SB to show that Acarya teachings are consistent with Bhagavatam, or rather to show that Bhagavatam explicitly, literally, requires such a formal Raga-marga? Kindly provide shastra to show it is the latter, not the former.
This is actually circular reasoning as the writings of the acaryas are our sastra! CC was written by an acarya! BRS was written by an acarya! These are sastras that we refer to as authoritative scripture. Similarly, SB was also written by an acarya! Sastra is the internal realization of great devotees who have witnessed the pastimes of the Lord. In Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu, in Chaitanya Caritamrita, in Ujjvala Nilamani and do many other sastras, the acaryas have powerfully argued their case with reference to SB in deference to Srila Vyasadeva, but the sastra does not stop with him, nor will it stop with them. And they do recommend certain practices- such as constant hearing, chanting and remembering of the name, form, attributes and pastimes of the Lord and His dearmost devotees. That is why they describe the same in their books, in great detail. So many astonishing descriptions. This is ragaunuga. Besides that, we come in their disciplic line of Visvanatha and Jiva, and we receive the conclusions of the sastra through them, and what they write is also sastra.
HM: Similarly, Prabhupada's purport to this verse is quoted. But in all these quotes, we simply hear that following rules is not enough, one must develop spontaneous love. Neither the CC verse, nor the purport, addresses our issue: is a formal Raga practice required? Clearly many advanced preachers are not at all dependent on scriptural injunctions and favorable logic. They are spontaneously, ecstatically serving.
But are they serving with love- that's the point? Are they in nishta, ruci, asakti, or bhava? It is spontaneity in loving devotional service, not just service, that characterises raganuga, for bliss and enthusiasm can come from ulterior motivations. One must have love, priti. And if one doesn't have it, and it takes some painful anartha nivritti to realise that one hasn't even a drop, not even a droplet of such love, then one feels empty, useless and discouraged- and one then begs and begs in utter dependency, for such love.
There is no formality, just a continuous and relentless churning of the emotions. Just as cream, when churned consistently, has different appearances at different times, or when milk and sugar, when boiled, has different stages of thickness, love, when more and more intense, produces different symptoms. That is the structure- a constant thickening of desire.
That you think that raga is some formal practice means you haven't understood it. It may be at the practice stage- sadhana raganuga bhakti- but it is the practice of loving.
USP: Those who are genuinely sincere will be guided by Krsna to the knowledge provided by His acaryas, so they can learn the actual processes for entering Vraja lila. HM: What if that is already happening?
Thats a very good point Maharaja. Uttama Sloka prabhu has written a wonderful book wherein the knowledge of the acaryas about the actual process for entering Vraja lila has been given in such a form that is easily understood, intelligently persuasive and eloquently captivating. So many devotees- hundreds- have been helped in their devotional progress simply by reading his book.
HM:What if there is more than one modality, within authorized bhakti-yoga, to reach Vraja-lila? Again, where does clear, explicit Shastra require a specific Raga procedure?
There are more than one- there is as many as there are Vraja basis. Those who serve under Lalita will have a different meditation and service to those who serve under Visakha and so on. It is VERY varied!
USP: "Did Srila Prabhupada chant his guru’s pranama prayers at the beginning of kirtans that he led?" HM: No, but he did chant it at the END of EVERY kirtana in the Prema-dhvani prayers. Did Aindra Prabhu do that after every kirtana? If so, I sincerely apologize for my statement.
Aindra's whole life was glorification of Srila Prabhupada and his mission to make us all “cent-percent Krsna conscious”
USP: "Narottama dasa Thakura explains in his Prema-bhakti-candrika, that one must focus specifically on one’s desired relationship with Krsna in order to attain success: 'I will always think of the devotional service of the lotus feet of the Divine Pair, and I will always remain attached to that.vWhatever I think of during my spiritual practice (sadhana) I will attain in my siddha-deha when I reach perfection. This is the means of raga-bhakti.'" HM: Basically, Narottama Dasa Thakura makes two points here: 1.As in Gita 8.5-6, if we meditate on Krishna in a certain way, we will attain Krishna in that way. 2.Always thinking of Krishna in a certain way is Raga-bhakti. Narottama does not state: 1.This constitutes a formal process beyond constant remembrance. 2.One cannot think of Krishna in a certain way in the course of preaching.
Raga is constant remembrance- in loving service- it is not formal and it can be done while preaching. Helping devotees come to this level, after anartha nivriitti and helping them maintain it, is also preaching. I think due to an inadequate understanding of what raga is, you are defeating a straw man!
USP: Quoting Prabhupada's purport to CC 2.8.221: …if one develops spontaneous love for Krsna as exhibited in the activities of those who live in Vrajabhumi, one attains the platform of raganuga-bhakti. One who has developed this spontaneous love is eligible for elevation to the platform enjoyed by the inhabitants of Vrajabhumi. HM: Note that Prabhupada does not specify how one develops that spontaneous love.
Actually, he does- “as exhibited in the activities of those who live in Vrajabhumi”. The word “exhibited” means that someone is being exhibited to. Who is that? The “one” SP is referring to here- who has witnessed the exhibitions in the recommended way- through hearing from authorities in our line.
USP: Thus, quoting from Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Caitanya-siksamrta: “Thus, the aspirant for prema must learn the process for gaining entrance to the eternal pastimes of Radha and Krsna by the mercy of his guru. The devotee aspiring for madhura-rasa, by meditating on his identity as a gopi, attains entrance into the entourage of Radha.” CS, Chapter 6, Part 5 HM: The same question arises. Doesn't this quote also authorize a devotee to focus fully on spreading Srila Prabhupada's mission, knowing that Prabhupada will eventually bless that devotee with everything required to enter Vraja?
The blessing is there already. Everything required to enter Vraja is there- the daily meditations, the mood to cultivate, the pastimes to remember and take part in, as one's heart desires, the guidance. Srila Prabhupada's blessings are always with us. The point is, we have to know when we are ready for them. We have to be honest, but we also have to be courageous. Honesty will stop us from, as Bhaktivinode Thakura said, progressing too quickly, and courage and faith will help us keep going. Honesty, the primary characteristic of anartha nivritti will make us feel completely hopeless, helpless and unqualified, as we read, hear, chant and remember the pastimes of Krsna and develop attachment for the same. Such anartha nivritti propels us forward in humility and surrender- as servants to those pastimes- not as enjoyers.
HM:We are waiting for evidence from Shastra that one must take the initiative to formally matriculate into a Raga course.
But the qualification is that one feels unqualified, so there is no feeling of matriculation. Feelings of being qualified are not the cause- attachment and attraction is the only cause. Feeling disqualified, yet attached and greedy for the goods, leads one to beg, and beg again, and never stop begging. Our great acaryas were all beggars. They never felt they had matriculated from anything. They felt useless, fallen, lost and the lowest of mankind.
A raganuga devotee not only presents himself as a neophyte, he really thinks he is, and this can take place, reasonably, because the mercy of the Lord has no cause, and when Sri Chaitanya is involved, it descends to the lowest place.
HM: "A devotee who is actually advanced in Krsna consciousness, who is constantly engaged in devotional service, should not manifest himself, even though he has attained perfection. “
No one is arguing that one should manifest his advancement to others.
HM: The idea is that he should always continue to act as a neophyte devotee as long as his material body is there. Activities in devotional service under regulative principles must be followed even by the pure devotee.
That is also explained by Bhaktivinode Thakura. One does not give up the practices of vaidhi while engaging in raganuga sadhana bhakti. Externally the practice of hearing and chanting Goes on- only the consciousness has changed.
HM: But when he realizes his actual position in relationship with the Lord, he can, along with the discharging of regulative service, think within himself of the Lord, under the guidance of a particular associate of the Lord, and develop his transcendental sentiments in following that associate." [NOD 16]
Clearly that is ragaunuga. And it is being recommended by Srila Prabhupada. The methodology is also very specific- under the guidance of a particular associate. So why is his disciple arguing that anyone who has some spontaneous enthusiasm for preaching is already there?
HM: Clearly an advanced devotee continues his normal service and sadhana, but spontaneously, lovingly meditates on his or her relationship with Krishna, under the guidance of a Vraja-vasi. Again there is no mention here of a formal, structured procedure.
The structure is to lovingly meditate. That is all.
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Post by niscala on Sept 21, 2013 22:06:57 GMT -5
Srisirkatote: Thanks for all those quotes. They are amazing! One can even be meditating with verses glorifying the love of the gopis but if one does not conceive of oneself in a lowly position, as His maidservant, then one will attain queenship only. I love this rebuttal of yours: 4. He says: "Bhaktivinoda Thakura perfectly spoke for his time. Then Krishna sent Prabhupada to make a full presentation to the world. Are we really to believe that Krishna will deny His Vraja-dhama to those who give their lives to His pure devotee, Prabhupada? That would be a ludicrous conclusion." According to him, without following raganuga bhakti but following Prabhupada one can go to vraja dhama? So he means raganuga bhakti is different from following prabhupada. Was Prabhupada vaidhi guru? Prabhu, you are much more learned than me- please correct any misunderstanding I have in my own rebuttal, posted above. Another thing I noticed HM as saying: Off course by preaching one gets mercy of Prabhupada and mercy is the only way to attain raganuga bhakti. The assumption is a common one in ISKCON that SP's mercy is only attainable by preaching, and another one is here too- that preaching means only to non-devotees. Preaching is going on here in this forum. And SP's mercy is without condition- it is thrown at our feet, we just need to pick it up. It is not only for preachers. "By preaching one gets the mercy of SP" -as if he wants to only give it to preachers. Read more: raganugabhakti.freeforums.net/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=35&page=1#ixzz2faR8k7x6
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Post by Uttamasloka on Sept 22, 2013 11:36:59 GMT -5
Due to other commitments, it will take me a couple of days to prepare my response to Hrdayananda Maharaja. But I wanted to clarify some points in the meantime.
The purpose of this forum is sadhu-sanga - discussion of topics related to bhakti, and specifically, raganuga-bhakti and all things connected. It is not a battle ground for fighting or criticism. That should not be our mentality. That will not yield the desired results.
I specifically termed my response to HM's article as my, "commentary and analysis", and not my rebuttal or refutation. I am not trying to "defeat" HM or criticize him. He is my friend. Friends enlighten one another. My purpose, and our collective purpose, should be to establish the correct understanding of the truth according to Gaudiya Vaisnava tattva and siddhanta, as we have learned it from all of our acaryas.
If I have made a mistake in anything I've presented I want to know so I can correct my understanding, and I don't care who corrects me. In such cases I am not "defeated", but I am a winner, because my foundational understanding has been improved and strengthened and my misconceptions have been rectified. And thus, we are all winners for the same reasons. That should be our mood.
Our discussions will flourish if we have truth as our goal and not any personal agenda for being right. Although our discussions may be spirited and passionate, the underlying mood should be respectful, friendly and not antagonistic or inimical. So far that has been the case more or less, but I wanted to reinforce this for everyone's edification.
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Post by mahavira on Sept 23, 2013 9:14:10 GMT -5
Uttama, well said!
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Post by Uttamasloka on Sept 24, 2013 0:20:20 GMT -5
I’ve decided to respond to the specific points presented by Hrdayananda Maharaja by presenting a summary analysis that embodies the answers to all of his current questions and assertions. This will serve to focus my responses and avoid redundancy and a scattered presentation. I’m also going to limit the sastric references I give to avoid expanding my explanations, but I will give the page numbers in my book where all of the references can be found.
In his response to the initial question, HM stated: “The Bhagavatam does not explicitly state that we must practice a separate Raga-bhakti. Lord Caitanya stated that the Bhagavatam contains all Vaishnava-siddhanta. Therefore the requirement of practicing Raga-bhakti is not a siddhanta, a fundamental principle, but rather a detail as outlined in Chapter 6 of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. And details are variable, as stated by Rupa Goswami.”
This sets up a faulty premise that is then used as the basis to refute certain arguments throughout HM’s presentation. The faulty reasoning and application is that if something is not explicitly stated in SB, it cannot be accepted as part of Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy. This is a restrictive over simplification of the principle and does not fully convey what Lord Caitanya meant when He made that statement.
The acaryas have studied SB and have extracted and extrapolated the siddhantas (conclusions and principles) from SB. The acaryas have presented many principles in their books that are not directly found in SB, yet they are accepted as our Gaudiya sastra and guiding siddhanta. In the case of Rupa Gosvami and Sanatana Gosvami, Lord Caitanya taught them these principles personally and told them to establish them conclusively with reference to SB and other sastras as validation.
For example, Rupa Gosvami has used Bharata Muni’s book (Natya-sastra) on mundane rasa to explain the structure and nature of transcendental rasa and he gives numerous quotes from SB to show examples of this in BRS and UN. BM’s book has nothing to do with SB and SB does not explicity delineate any of these structured details of rasa, including the terminology, ie: vibhava, asraya, visaya, uddipanas, sthayi-bhava, sancari-bhavas, etc. Nonetheless, these details are there in SB if one has the eyes to see it. Rupa Gosvami gives us the necessary vision to see these hidden truths, using this template from BM. This terminology is now an integral part of our philosophical doctrine.
This perspective is also confirmed by Visvanatha Cakravarti in Raga-vartma-candrika:
In Srimad Bhagavatam, which is the essence of all the Upanisads, Lord Kapila speaks the following words:
“To the devotees I am the beloved, the very Self, the son, the friend, the spiritual master, the wellwisher, fate, or the chosen Deity.” (3.25.38)
Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu of Srila Rupa Goswami, which describes the devotion propounded by the Srimad Bhagavatam, provides the following three verses:
“The devotee should remember Krsna and an eternally liberated devotee of Krsna of his own choice. He should always live in Vraja and be attached to topics concerning Krsna and that favorite devotee of his.” (1.2.294)
“Both in his material body (sadhaka deha) and in his mentally conceived spiritual body (siddha deha) he should follow in the footsteps of the people of Vraja, always desiring their moods and activities.” (1.2.295)
“The practitioner of raganuga bhakti should also perform all the limbs of vaidhi bhakti, such as hearing and chanting, as far as they are favorable. This is what the learned say.” (1.2.296)
These three verses explain the position of the kamanuga devotee (those serving in a conjugal mood). RVC, 1.10
This is conclusive proof that raganuga-bhakti and its processes are substantiated by SB even though these details may not be explicitly stated therein. The process of meditation in one’s siddha-deha is not stated explicitly in SB yet it is a core part of the internal processes of raganuga-bhakti, as presented by RG in BRS and further explained by JG and VCT. Shishir has given their purports in his post above (reply #7). BRS, 1.2.295 is also quoted in CC. The siddha-deha is also mentioned in CC, 2.8.229, 2.22.156-157. Srila Prabhupada taught us that CC is the post graduate study of SB and yet no quotes are given there from SB re the siddha-deha.
RG gives many examples from SB in support of the principles he presents in BRS regarding raganuga-bhakti and rasa. Therefore, the premise that if something is not explicitly stated in SB it is not part of our Vaisnava philosophy is not valid.
Another key issue brought up by HM is, “...however whether one must perform a formal, structured Raga process is the subject under discussion. One must show not only that Acaryas require this or that procedure, but that these requirements are absolute requirements. We follow Guru, Sadhu, and Shastra. Where is Shastra that confirms the absolute necessity of a formal, structured path of Raganuga-bhakti?”
To address this issue I feel it is necessary to present a brief summary of the systematic processes described by the acaryas as presented in my book. First of all it is a bit of an oxymoron to describe raganuga-bhakti as a “formal and structured process”. There are certainly principles and guidelines given (page 81 in my book), but by its very nature, raganuga is spontaneous and not rigid or structured like vaidhi-bhakti. I provided a number of quotes in my first response to prove that.
BVT also explains this in Caitanya-siksamrta:
Just as in vaidhi-bhakti the rules of naitika dharma mature and change shape, so also in raganuga-bhakti the rules of vaidhi-bhakti change slightly in emotional content and display some independent qualities. In some circumstances the rules change slightly, and in other cases, they transform entirely. This will be apparent from observing the conduct of the devotee. These changes do not arise from scripture, but according to the taste of the individual, and thus, examples are hard to give. Examples can only be given for vaidhi-bhakti. CS, Chapter 4, Page 139
That being said, there are in fact specific processes and progressive stages given by the acaryas, starting with the three verses quoted before from BRS, ie: 1.2.294-296. But first, it will serve us well to establish the correct understanding of raganuga-bhakti, so we’re all on the same page.
Raganuga-bhakti cannot begin until one has had an awakening realization of their desired relationship with Krsna in Vraja lila in one of the four major rasas, ie: dasya, sakhya, vatsalya or madhurya. Raganuga has no meaning outside of that core context because raganuga means following the raga of a nitya-siddha Vraja associate whose bhava and seva one aspires to emulate.
Logically this implies that, along with the awakening of one’s desired relationship there is also a certain degree of specificity in that realization, eg: I desire to be a sakha in Subala’s group of cowherd boys, or, I desire to be a nitya-sakhi (manjari) or priya-sakhi in Radha’s group, under the gudiance of a specific asta-sakhi or prana-sakhi (principle manjari). Without this specificity there is no question of following a Vraja associate. It is not a casual or haphazard endeavor.
Thus, there are two aspects to this awakening realization, ie: your desired relationship, and the nitya-siddha Vraja associate from whom you will seek shelter and guidance. These two aspects may not manifest fully at the same time. (page 130 in my book)
Jiva Gosvami also confirms the qualifications for the awakening of one’s rasa in his Bhakti-sandarbha:
For this reason we will now discuss raganuga-bhakti, the practice of devotion following in the wake of the moods of natural affection. When a person develops a taste for the aforesaid specific raga [i.e., any of the four major rasas], even though that raga itself has not arisen in her or him, the heart becomes like a crystal, shining as it reflects the rays of the moon of that raga.
By hearing about this raga from scripture or from one’s teacher, one develops a taste for the actions of the ragatmika associates also, that are expressions of this ragatmika-bhakti. Then by adhering to the raga of a particular associate of the Lord, according to one’s taste, one executes devotion, which is called raganuga. BS, Anuccheda 310
In addition to the above requisite criteria, the other essential component is that one must be blessed (by Krsna or His devotee) with the necessary strong desire to pursue and attain this specific goal, and the nature of that desire must be at the level of greed (lobha) and intense longing (laulyam). Without this awakening and intense desire, genuine raganuga-bhakti cannot begin in earnest. This is explained with full substantiation in my book beginning on page 64. Here’s an example:
The qualification for raganuga-bhakti is as follows: That person who is greedy for attaining a bhava similar to that of the inhabitants of Vraja – who are fixed solely in ragatmika-bhakti – is qualified for raganuga-bhakti. BRS, 1.2.291
Visvanatha Cakravarti elaborates on this verse after quoting it in Raga-vartma-candrika:
If one thinks, “let such greed arise in me also”, after hearing about moods such as the transcendental conjugal mood toward Krsna of His associates, the gopis in Vraja, then one need not wait for suitable sanctions from the revealed scriptures or logical arguments. If such impetuses are there (i.e., suitable sanctions or logical arguments), then it cannot be justly called greed.
This greed never arises in anyone on such basis, nor does the candidate ever consider whether or not he is qualified for the path of raganuga-bhakti. Rather, simply after hearing about the subject matter, or seeing it, that greed will arise in him. RVC, 1.5
As explained in BRS, 1.2.296, externally, the sadhana of vaidhi-bhakti and raganuga-bhakti employ the same angas, ie: hearing, chanting, remembering, serving, etc. This also includes preaching, both to new devotees and to existing devotees. However, the spontaneity of raganuga is specifically in conjunction with one’s desired relationship with Krsna, and, as a by-product, that spontaneity subsequently manifests in one’s external activities. This is the correct understanding of the correlation between the internal and external elements of raganuga. No alternative descriptions are given for raganuga-bhakti by any acaryas.
Now, regarding a specific structured process, BVT explains that in raganuga-bhakti there are five stages of progress in the realization and manifestation of one’s eternal identity:
(1) the stage of hearing – sravana-dasa (2) the stage of accepting – varana-dasa (3) the stage of remembering – smarana-dasa (4) the stage of adoption – apana-dasa (5) the stage of full possession – sampatti-dasa
These stages are described in detail in Jaiva-dharma (chapter 40) and Harinama-cintamani (chapter 15). These five stages are not explicitly given in SB but BVT has presented them conclusively as the necessary, natural and logical stages one must traverse to attain bhava. These five stages are discussed in my book starting on page 211.
Meditation in one’s siddha-deha is a specific process that is an integral part of raganuga-bhakti as stated above by RG in BRS, as well as in CC. The full details related to one’s siddha-deha and its ekadasa-bhavas are given by BVT in Jaiva-dharma and Harinama-cintamani. I have provided exhaustive support for this in my book starting on page 168 and 183. These details are not found specifically in SB, but that does not invalidate them. Otherwise, using this faulty premise, we would have to invalidate many of the principles presented by the acaryas.
Raganuga-bhakti is in fact the specific gradual process by which our eternal identity is realized and gradually manifested. The initial realization and awakening of one’s desired relationship is the beginning, and the gradual transformation takes place throughout the final stages of progress, ie: nistha, ruci, asakti, bhava and finally, prema. The five stages given by BVT more or less parallel these final progressive stages of bhakti, including the third stage, smarana-dasa, which also has five progressive stages within it. Please refer to the flow-chart showing all of these interrelationships, on page 225 in my book.
This identity transformation takes place using the agency of one’s siddha-deha. It’s not that we will realize our siddha-deha or that it will be revealed to us. What is revealed initially is the seed essence of our svarupa - our eternal nature or predisposition towards a particular type of service and relationship with Krsna in one of the four rasas. When that initial realization becomes more clear and you understand which Vraja associate you will follow, you are on the threshold of raganuga-bhakti. Intense desire (greed) is the fuel to propell the process from that point on.
One’s siddha-deha is manifest as a conscious, deliberate, proactive act, after one has been properly instructed in these details by one’s guru(s). It is a mentally conceived subtle spiritual body (siddha-deha) that is further defined by the ekadasa-bhavas, the eleven characteristics. The purpose of the siddha-deha is specifically in conjunction with one’s bhajana meditations on Krsna lila while chanting privately. Meditation on Krsna lila is not just reading or “thinking” about these stories. One must eventually enter into these pastimes and the only way to do that is via the siddha-deha. You cannot do this in the context of your material idenity and body. (page 200 in my book)
It’s important to emphasize that this type of deep focused meditation does not take place during the beginning stages of raganuga-bhakti. It is a gradual process, and these deeper levels of meditation are only possible during the advanced stages of ruci, asakti and bhava. And this meditation typically takes place while chanting the Holy Names in solitude during the time one sets aside for one's daily private bhajana. Thus, there are five stages in smaranam-dasa: smarana, dharana, dhyana, anusmrti, samadhi. (page 217 in my book)
Bhaktivinoda Thakura gives his explanation of these five stages specifically in conjunction with meditating on one’s siddha-deha, in his notes on 15.93 in Harinama-cintamani:
Simple remembering is the stage where one recalls his spiritual identity and its eleven aspects in relationship to one’s service in the circadian pastimes (asta-kaliya-lila) of the Divine Couple. At this point, there is still no constancy in one’s meditation, as one sometimes remembers, and at other times is distracted.
As one progresses, one comes to the stage of self-reminding, dharana, in which one attempts to gain steadiness in remembering.
When one concentrates on all aspects of the object of meditation, that is called dhyana or meditation.
When one meditates at every moment, the state is called “constant recollection” or anusmrti.
When one’s meditation is perfect and uninterrupted, and one thinks only of Lord Krsna’s pastimes and nothing else, that state is called samadhi. HC, 15.93
Thus, one’s siddha-deha (as defined by the ekadasa-bhavas) is mentally conceived according to one’s desires and under the guidance of one’s guru, and one meditates on Krsna lila using the agency of one’s siddha-deha. That is the recommended process by all of the acaryas and explicitly delineated by BVT. If you don’t learn and follow the acaryas’ directions, you will be prone to speculation and deviation, which is how a sahajiya mentality arises.
Just as we have created our material bodies from the desires in our subtle body, so we will manifest our spiritual body through the via medium of our siddha-deha according to the intense spiritual desires that are fueling our practice. Material desires manifest our material body and spiritual desires manifest our spiritual body. According to our desires and intense bhajana during these final stages of raganuga-bhakti practice, Krsna eventually awards us our eternal spiritual body and identity at the stage of bhava, ie: svarupa-siddhi. (page 220 in my book).
However, at the perfectional stage of bhava, svarupa-siddhi, we still have our physical and subtle bodies, so the process is not yet complete. Bhava is the seed of prema, so there is still more development required. Bhava begins to transform into the first stages of prema and eventually we leave our physical and subtle bodies and take birth from the womb of a nitya-siddha gopi in prakata-lila - Krsna’s pastimes in Gokula in some material universe. There, we attain our final eternal body and our identity in the full context of Vraja lila (vastu-siddhi), and we go through the final stages of the developmental and perfection of our prema. (page 221 in my book)
This summary presentation answers all of the questions raised by HM in his response, and provides the evidence that there is in fact a specific systematic process associated with raganuga-bhakti, which is the path that all devotees must traverse to attain bhava and prema.
We must first learn what the acaryas have taught, and the specific details for each individual devotee will be revealed gradually by chanting the Holy Names, with the blessings of one’s guru and the mercy of Krsna, which is obtained by serving and pleasing one’s guru.
That is the recommended process. To avoid studying the acaryas’ teachings and to think that all of these complex details and processes will simply be revealed internally is a misunderstanding of how revelations take place in this particular endeavor. BVT and the other acaryas went to great efforts to explain these details for our benefit. To think that somehow they don’t apply now is a serious misunderstanding. There is no evidence to support that mistaken notion.
And to argue that because these specific details are not in Srila Prabhupada’s books they are therefore not required, is also an incorrect assumption. In London, in 1969, on the appearance day of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Prabhupada spoke on his life and teachings:
“So Bhaktivinoda Thakura happens to be an acarya, one of the acaryas. And he left behind him many books – Caitanya-siksamrta, Jaiva-dharma. These are very important books. They’re in Bengali and Sanskrit… So we are trying to present Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s books also in an English translation. Gradually you will get them.”
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Post by niscala on Sept 24, 2013 2:12:53 GMT -5
Your arguments are irrefutable- for if one wants to refute them, one has to disagree with the disciplic succession we come in- for that's exactly what you have argued with. Your chosen quotes are exactly and precisely the proof of the validity of the arguments being made, and all the quotes are 100% clear and unambiguous!
I feel sorry for anyone who is trying to argue against you- because there is nothing concocted, supposed or extrapolated upon. It is direct evidence- direct answers- by our acaryas and writers of sastra.
I'm glad you used these quotes, as it helps me understand and take heart by understanding where I am and the next step up and to try to take it step by step. I was starting to think something is wrong with me as I am not remembering the pastimes continually. Now I can understand it is normal- for the lowest rung. So I think there is a purpose to such analysis of the stages- to give a kind of road map for the sadhaka, a yardstick to help him measure his progress, so he will not become discouraged. And discouragement is very easy, because we have been told so many times that this path is for liberated souls, is for exalted or very advanced devotees etc etc and when upon that outer discouragement, we have to deal with our minds wandering, we may think it is hopeless.
All glories to your service prabhu, in giving us this roadmap to go by, or by handing it down to us from the acaryas and helping us read it.
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Post by mahaviryadas on Sept 24, 2013 10:29:46 GMT -5
First I would like to express my appreciation to you Uttamasloka prabhu for your dedicated work regarding raganuga-bhakti.
Though information of this confidential level of devotional service is broadly expressed by acaryas in their writings, one needs qualification to enter this realm, and that is eagerness for it. Until that happens one will only lick the outside of the bottle sort to speak.
As Visvanatha cakravarti thakura puts it; vaidhi and raganuga are two kinds of bhaktis for two kinds of bhaktas. So this special kind of preaching should be directed more toward populating Vraja with those who are eager for it rather than trying to depopulate Vaikuntha of those who have this natural affinity. Otherwise we risk engagement on the path of arguments which is, according to Bhaktivinoda thakura, the false path.
It is said that rasika-bhaktas enter the realm of Vraja-bhumi in ''small groups''. But then again, who knows what Lord Caitanya has in mind. Maybe through the power of kirtans and lectures led by qualified and experienced devotees, many will be spontenously elevated by the grace and magnanimity of guru-gauranga. It is maybe already imperceptively happening. In any case,I am very exited to see how this will develop in our society of devotees.
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