Bhavolllasa Rati

I included the section on Bhavollasa-rati specifically to address the assertions of the manjari-only proponents. Outside of the acaryas' writings you'll often read that bhavollasa-rati is a special and unique sthayi-bhava of Radha's manjaris. After extensive investigation, I could only find this one verse in BRS by Rupa Gosvami, along with the commentaries of JG and VCT, along with VCT's short commentary in JN, which was more or less the same as his statements in BRS. BVT agrees with JG and VCT.

Although there are conflicting points in their statements re bhavollasa-rati being a sancari-bhava, what is very clear is that bhavollasa-rati is NOT a sthayi-bhava (one's dominant eternal emotional mood). This directly contradicts and corrects a long-standing "traditional" view.

Also, I am reluctant to describe the Gaudiya lineages as "manjari-lineages". As I've stated before, there is no emphasis whatsoever in CC, BRS, or UN on manjaris as being a key component of raganuga-bhakti for Gaudiya Vaisnavas. In all of the books of our acaryas, one's rasa with Krsna is described as eternally inherent in one's svarupa and it is awakened from the dormant state by engaging in sadhana-bhakti and receiving the mercy of Krsna and one's guru(s).

You don't choose to be a manjari simply because your guru or the gurus in your lineage are manjaris. It doesn't work that way - that is not the process. You follow the natural internal inclinations that awaken in your heart in the course of sadhana-bhakti. This is repeatedly confirmed by all of the acaryas in their books, including Lord Caitanya in CC. I have given many of those references in my book, especially in chapter 5.

Who can say with any accuracy, but if it turns out that many Gaudiya Vaisnavas are manjaris, it is not the cause and effect of the lineage - it is their own individual awakening of their eternal identity. Certainly, because Lord Caitanya appeared to open the doors to madhurya-rasa like never before, is it reasonable to expect that many Gaudiya Vaisnavas will be spontaneously and naturally attracted to madhurya-rasa, but as we now know from VCT in his commentaries in UN, one can also enter madhurya-rasa as a priya-sakhi with sama-sneha, in addition to entering as a nitya-sakhi manjari with asama-sneha. Lord Caitanya opened the doors to madhurya-rasa to the fullest extent, not partially.

On the Manjari lineage question:
There is two ways i know of to look at this. One is the Bhagavat Shiksha lineage as envisioned by BSST. It starts with Mahaprabhu, who is the combined form of Radha and Krishna, or is Krishna overtaken by the bhava and kanti of Radharani... I'll take the second one. Next is Svarupa Damodar Prabhu - Lalita Sakhi, the left wing of the left wing of the gopis, the group leader (yuthesvari?) of the Manjaris headed by Rupa Manjari. And so next is Rupa and Raghunatha - Rupa and Rati Manjaris! From here on in all the acaryas are manjaris.... lets go through them.. Jiva, Kaviraja Goswami, Narrotama, Visvanatha, Baladeva (actually not sure about Baladeva), Jagganatha ( not sure but i would give you odds), Bhaktivinode, Gaurakishore, BSST, and of course A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, who i will give you, the preponderance of the evidence points to him being in Sakhya bhava. But there are many of BSST's followers known to be followers of the Manjaris, BP Keshava Maharaja for example.

The other way is the only diksha line that i know of which is the one starting with Jahnava Ma- Ananga Manjari and going through eight teachers to Bipin Bihari Goswami, all Manjaris. That diksha line is known as a manjari diksha lineage.

So we are coming in the line of Rupa Manjari and Ananga Manjari. Ananga Manjari is that gopi who has her kunja in the centre of Radha Kunda. She is considered Baldeva's expansion, the guru of madhurya rasa. In Gaura leela She is Nityananda Shakti. So Rupa and Ananga Manjaris, those two incredibly powerful personalities are the source of our lineages. That is quite an overwhelming amount of Manjari bhava we are inheriting in our line, diksha and shiksha.

Is this a Manjari lineage? The numbers in our parampara would certainly speak for that being the case. It certainly is the one bhava that is modeled by all our acaryas ('cept one of course).

Is it the highest? When it is said that manjari bhava is the highest destination for the Rupanuga Gaudiya Vaisnavas, it can be taken to be an expression of bhava, which is asama sneha, biased. When it is said that it is the only bhava, then it goes out of the realm of tattva altogether as far as I can tell, an extreme position, that has it's adherents. I'm getting in over my head now, and would like to hear more about what the more recent acharyas have said regarding this issue.

I certainly don't think that Gaudiya Vaisnavism in general is a manjari sampradaya.. The Nityananda vamsa is known to be a sakhya line.. There are lines from Gadadhara Pandita, from Advaita Acarya, and probably lots more. I would like to read more about the larger Gaudiya world.



No, but you do become attracted to a line that corresponds to your own inner aspiration, you would think!! And if the line is prominently known as a Manjari lineage, then that would be a big sign in the window advertising what is available inside.

With the entry of Srila Prabhupada into our line, there might have been a sea change as far as the svarupa of those who are attracted. There are many devotees of Nitai-Gaura who relish the virya rasa. It has become a big tent!! The International Society for Multi-rasa Consciousness!! It's all good!! We shall all have to dance and chant together in ecstasy, for the Golden Prema Yuga to dawn for real!!! Can't wait!!;D

Well, consider this: in the beginning, neophytes have very little understanding of these advanced concepts regarding one's rasa, etc, so initially, one's attraction to sadhu-sanga and/or a lineage wouldn't necessarily be based on being attracted according to one's inclinations, because they likely would not have manifested clearly at that stage. Even after 40 years of bhakti, most devotees have not even considered such things, what to speak of 40 years ago.

In all cases, according to the acaryas, one's desired relationship is part of one's svarupa, so it is what it is and just needs to be awakened by sadhana-bhakti. In all of the books I studied to write my book, none of the acaryas said that our rasa is given by our diksa guru based on the diksa-guru's own rasa. They always emphasized it was according to one's own "desires" "inclinations" "preferences" "spontaneous attraction", etc, and according to many lifetimes of samskaras. All of those quotes are in my book.

Avadoot:

Raganuga-bhakti is not a numbers game. If you read my book, in chapter 5 in the section, How is one's rasa determined, it is more than clear that one's rasa is inherent in one's svarupa and is not acquired from one's guru or chosen arbitrarily because of one's lineage. That's just not how it works. That is not Gaudiya Vaisnava tattva or siddhanta. I have provided multiple references from several acaryas to prove this point conclusively. Please provide multiple and conclusive proofs if you believe otherwise. Your statements are not conclusive evidence, nor are they supported by our acaryas' books.

It's astonishing to me how so many devotees think they have to be manjaris simply because so many predecessor acaryas are manjaris. As if it was mandatory. It is NOT. Bhakti is the path that leads one to the awakening of one's own individual identity and rasa in Krsna's lila. It has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the lineage. Please read that section in chapter 5 and the following section on manjaris for the full conclusive evidence.

Regarding Srila Prabhupada's rasa, with all due respect to Srila Narayana Maharaja and Gaura Govinda Maharaja, I do not accept their statements as conclusive. I presented the actual facts in the addendum article to my book regarding Jadurani's assertions that Srila Prabhupada is a manjari. Srila Prabhupada himself said directly, several times that he is in sakhya-rasa. He is NOT a manjari. The statements of other devotees to the contrary are null and void, in light of Srila Prabhupada's direct statements, which eliminate all speculation once and for all. Here is the excerpt from that article:

"As a short preface to this section, I am including the following anecdotes which I discovered after the release of my book, and which will resolve this issue once and for all. I could have used these alone to defeat all opposing arguments. I received this information from my Godsister, Malati Devi Dasi. Here is her story:

In early 1968, Harñarani Devi Dasi wrote a short, insightful poem in glorification of Srila Prabhupada. In this poem, she referred to Srila Prabhupada as a “cowboy.” While we (the little handful of fledgling devotees in San Francisco at the time) thought is was a bit childish, Srila Prabhupada requested that it be printed in the next BTG (which were mimeographed and stapled together at the time). You can find this poem on the VedaBase. Sitting with Srila Prabhupada, we shyly asked him, “Are you a cowboy (keep in mind, we didn’t know the word “gopa” at the time)?” To which, he simply answered in a matter of fact tone, “Yes.” We never doubted or double guessed this information. We didn’t even know that it was not appropriate to make such a inquiry.

Another anecdote comes from my Godsister, Govinda Dasi. I am paraphrasing her story. Govinda Dasi gave Srila Prabhupada a sweater (or shirt) that had embroidery with a western cowboy motif. When Srila Prabhupada put it on, Govinda Dasi said, “Srila Prabhupada, you look like a cowboy!” to which Srila Prabhupada replied, “I AM a cowboy!”

Another incident involves a drawing Govinda Dasi did for use in the BTG and Srila Prabhupada’s books. It depicted a scene where Krsna and the cowherd boys were returning from the forests to the village with all of the cows at the end of the day. Govinda Dasi informed Srila Prabhupada that one of the cowherd boys she drew represented him. When this was pointed out to Srila Prabhupada he did not object or say anything contrary. She wrote to me:

Both [stories] are true, but Prabhupada was in India when I sent the drawing. The drawing was later colored in and is used as backdrops for altars in Vrndavana and else where, and also in BTG. It is Krsna returning with thousands of cows. It was common knowledge amonst the devotees that Srila Prabhupada often referred to himself as a cowherd boy, and even acted the part at the time. The acarya persona was his public image, and also a very real facet of his diamond like personality, of course. But the cowherd boy identity was closer to his heart."

Thus, Srila Prabhupada has resolved this question once and for all by his own direct statements - multiple times. In addition, Srila Prabhupada is clearly a priya-narma-sakha as evidenced by the fact that he sang Jaya Radha Madhava before each Bhagavatam class, which is a madhurya-rasa bhajana. The line you quoted from his poem also confirms that. However, the rest of his poem is 100% sakhya-rasa and has zero to do with manjari-bhava. That is blatantly obvious to anyone who is well versed in the knowledge of the subject of rasas.

Well this is a problem in our line. After 40 years most devotees don't even know that uncovering their svarupa is part of sadhana bhakti. This is the result of a very cautious and conservative approach to GV that started a hundred years ago, but even in the Gaudiya Matha things are a little more clear. Another version is the account given in Jaiva Dharma, where the bhavas are revealed as soon as contact with a high class sadhu happens. So it in not necessarily a 40 year journey, and if knowledge is being suppressed, it could be a 40 lifetime journey.

But if you are interested in following in the wake of a resident of Vraj, it would be of great importance to associate with someone who has similar mood, is affectionate towards you, and is advanced. I do not say that everyone has to be a Manjari in this line, if that is what you thought I implied. And in Iskcon it is not a major mood at all.. so many you hear, are attracted to sakhya bhava. That would say to me that they are attracted to that line because of the bhava deposited there by the founder, whether consciously or not. There may be a few going towards vatsalya rasa and sakhi bhava too. And many, but certainly not all, left Iskcon to associate with sadhus in the manjari line. We follow the heart!

It is pioneering work you are doing Uttamashloka Prabhu, and you have the shlokas to back it up. This whole thing has to be blown wide open for all to see, and make their own more informed decisions... Consider me part of the revolution... Jai Sri Radhe!!

Uttamasloka prabhu, you wrote:



If what you say is correct, then wouldn't the entire understanding of manjari-bhava prevalent in the living Gaudiya sangha today need to be re-imagined? As it stands, the predominant view is that while technically speaking manjari-bhava is not a sthayi-bhava, it is taught as still being non-different from a sthayi-bhava in it's practical application. The big distinction being made between manjaris and other types of sakhis is that they are supposed to experience rasa with Krishna through Radha as their sthayi-bhava---which to me sounds metaphoric, and in that metaphoric sense alone it makes sense as the super special sanchari-bhava/sthayi-bhava it's supposed to be.

Without bhavollasa-rati being a sthayi-bhava, what do you consider to be the main difference between manjaris and other sakhis? I mean besides age.

One small point, in a previous post of yours you called manjaris "pre-adolescent," which is technically incorrect since pubescence begins for girls generally around 10-11 years of age. Here is BVT in JD speaking to this point:



That has been translated 3 different ways that I could find:







This last one is most accurate about a manjaris age:

manjarider bayas das hoite sevanotkrame caudda

That says manjaris are das or 10 to caudda or 14.

About those translations, it's weird that of the 2 commonly available translations online, both get it wrong, the third above is a google translation from a German translation, but whom according to a friend I asked who speaks German does indeed translate properly without using Google translate.

The Bengali doesn't actually seem to say that Vijaya will grow from 10-16 like the first two above translations. It seems that one copied the other with that same mistake, also they leave out the part saying that manjaris grow (parjanta bridhi paibe) from 10 to 14 (manjarider bayas das hoite sevanotkrame caudda) and mistakingly saying that Vijaya will grow from 10 to 16. They don't even mention manjaris.

Sarvabhavana's translation also has the same error, here is his translation:

Based upon your sambandha with Krishna, a wonderful svarupa will manifest—that of a beautiful gopi of Vraja. Compatible with your service, a suitable vayasa is fixed—the period between ten and sixteen years is known as kaisora, adolescence, and this is your vayasa. In your svarupa, you will start at the age of ten and with advancing service you will reach the age of sixteen. This age range is also known as vayah-sandhi. The vraja-lalanas, beautiful gopis of Vrindavana, are not situated the ages of balya, infancy (birth to five years), and pauganda, childhood (six to ten years), nor vriddha, adulthood; so you should consider yourself eternally a kisori and feel and imbibe her transcendent sentiments.

I found another translation which appears to be more literal, but it misses on the idea of aging from 10 on up, which according to my Bengali speaking friend is definitely what it says, he wrote to me saying it does say that the manjaris age:




Here is that other translation, it's from an article on the old VNN by Premananda Das:

Kaisora vayasa vayasa - dasa vatsara haite solo vatsara paryanta kaisora. Ihakei vayasa-sandhi bale. Manjaridera vayasa dasa haite sevanotikrame caudda vatsra paryanta vridhi paibe. Balya, pauganda o vridha vayasa vrajalalanadikera hay na. Sadhaka nijeke kisori baliya abhiman karibe.

The kisori age is from ten years up to sixteen and is also referred to as 'vayasa-sandhi' ( the time when a woman's form develops). The manjari's ages start from ten and extend up to fourteen. Radha's sakhis and manjaris are all kisori. Thus the sadhaka shall conceive of his eternal svarupa as a kisori.

I have asked yet another friend who is a Bengali translator for his input and he is yet to get back to me. It could be that Premananda is correct, that it's a figure of speech to say they grow or increase in age, rather than a literal meaning, as my friend tells me it is, as well as the other translations. The implication of "increase up to" may not necessarily mean growing older, it could mean that instead of growing older that those are the various ages that manjaris appear as.