|
Post by avadoot on Sept 5, 2013 10:46:17 GMT -5
My dear bretheren Uttamasloka prabhu ji; With all due respect I do not think the identity of our Srila Prabhupada is such a closed and shut case as you have earnestly mentioned in your reply to my post. Having no direct realized knowledge of whats going on up there in Goloka and being prone to err it is always good to look at things from other angles and particular from the angle of the 'mahajana'. Not that I am not accepting the words of Srila Prabhupada ipso facto, but I do believe that there is the possibility that he may also sometimes speak without revealing directly the facts. For instance, did he not for most devotees present the case of the jiva having fallen from Vaikuntha although subsequently it was pointed out by other achary as that this was not the case and most likely done in consideration of our not being mature enough to fathom the real jiva-tattva. That being the case we do take it from the same such acharyas that the name of our dearmost spiritual master is none other than Bimala Mani Manjari, being the most obedient servant of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati who is of course, Nayana Mani Manjari. This fact was revealed in a lecture on Jagannatha Snana Yatra given by His Divine Grace Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja, whose divine appearance day just happens to be today! Whether we accept or not is up to the individual. But as far as I am concerned this is how I see my eternal spiritual master.
|
|
|
Post by Uttamasloka on Sept 5, 2013 13:06:11 GMT -5
Knowing Srila Prabhupada’s rasa/relationship is different from knowing his actual ‘identity’ in Vraja. I have made no such claims regarding his ‘identity’. I have related the direct statements of Srila Prabhupada from several encounters with devotees who are still alive with us today. This is not hearsay - it is direct evidence from the source, thus, leaving no possibility for argument or disagreement. He said he is a cowherd boy in no uncertain terms.
Other evidence may be considered supportive, ie: Krsna-Balarama Temple as his lasting legacy in the dhama, his poem written on the Jaladuta, his many statements (found in my book) saying that acaryas can also be in sakhya-rasa, etc.
As I pointed out in my book in chapter 1 in the fall of the jiva section, Srila Prabhupada made contradictory statements about this subject. It is only the devotees who have incorrectly focused on the statements that appear to support the fall idea. Prabhupada made as many statements supporting the opposite idea, but devotees who are not knowledgeable on this tattva, don’t understand him properly.
Giving this example is not at all appropriate to support that Srila Prabhupada may have said he was a cowherd boy, but he wasn’t really being straight-forward because we couldn’t handle the truth. Why is his being a manjari harder to accept than him being a cowherd boy? It makes no sense.
You are free to accept whatever you want. I choose to take the direct and repeated statements of Srila Prabhupada himself. There is no greater authority on this particular subject.
|
|
|
Post by Uttamasloka on Sept 5, 2013 18:42:21 GMT -5
One more thing that I find very odd is the name GGM attributes to Srila Prabhupada as a so-called manjari, ie: Bimala mani manjari. The recommendations from Gaura Govindarcana-smarana-paddhati and Jaiva-dharma are that one's name should be like other similar devotees in Vraja. Not that this is a hard and fast rule of course. They never mention anything about one's name being connected to one's guru, nor are there any examples of that.
And why would SP's siddha name include the birth name of his guru, ie: Bimala Prasada? That is a custom never mentioned anywhere by any acaryas who have spoken about the ekadasa-bhavas of one's siddha-deha. Bimala is the name of Bhaktisiddhanta's male material body, not his spiritual identity. It makes no sense whatsoever. I don't accept it.
|
|
|
Post by niscala on Sept 14, 2013 5:12:01 GMT -5
There is some evidence for Srila Prabhupada being in madhurya rasa- he asked that we sing those prayers that describe the spiritual master (for us, him) as making tasteful arrangements for the perfection of Radha-Krsna's loving affairs in Vraja. Yet we cannot deny his own statements. Could he then be a priya-narma-sakha? These cowherd boys are directly involved in helping Krsna's conjugal pastimes.
|
|
|
Post by Radha Vallabha on Sept 15, 2013 7:43:23 GMT -5
Regarding Srila Prabhupada's rasa, with all due respect to Srila Narayana Maharaja and Gaura Govinda Maharaja, I do not accept their statements as conclusive. I presented the actual facts in the addendum article to my book regarding Jadurani's assertions that Srila Prabhupada is a manjari. Srila Prabhupada himself said directly, several times that he is in sakhya-rasa. He is NOT a manjari." Speaking hundred percent from own my heart here: I regard the statements of my diksa-guru Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja about Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja being a manjari as encouragements for the disciples of the latter only. My Gurudeva was obviously "all about" manjari-bhava, and those who took siksa of him must have been attracted to that mood too, otherwise why would they take siksa. I am personally not convinced that all disciples (or otherwise followers) of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami would be able to reconcile having a diksa-guru in sakhya-rasa and a siksa-guru in manjari-bhava. Hence Srila Narayana Maharaja's statements about Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja being in manjari-bhava. Though normally there should be no issue in reconciling ones diksa- and siksa-gurus having different rasas.
|
|
|
Post by Uttamasloka on Sept 15, 2013 12:50:53 GMT -5
Niscala: Re verse six of Gurvastakam...
Srila Prabhupada was asked this same question, and in a letter to his disciple Jayapataka Svami. He replied:
“The prayers offered by Visvanatha Cakravarti to his spiritual master have a special significance. His spiritual master was one of the assistant gopis (manjaris), so the prayer was offered like that. On the whole, the spiritual master is an agent of Krishna. But either he is assistant to the gopis or assistant to the cowherd boys.”
Sri Radha Vallabha:
Your notions re SNM may be true. Such reconciliations by devotees are always benefited by having factual knowledge that supersedes any personal deficiencies or misconceptions.
|
|
|
Post by niscala on Mar 25, 2015 7:14:55 GMT -5
Here is more evidence from Ujjvala Nilamani, that aspiring to be a nitya-sakhi or maidservant of Radha, is not the only path for attaining the perfection of sadhana in madhurya rasa:
1.21 Commentary by Visvanatha Chakravarti Thakura: The phrase aneka-janma-siddhanam gopinam can be mean gopis who attained perfection after many births, not one birth. It can also refer to eternally perfect gopis who appeared whenever Krsna appeared in this world. Thus the phrase has two meanings: Krsna is the husband of some sadhana siddha gopis and he is the upapati of all the others. Thus the word pati has two meanings.
Visvanatha then goes on to argue that Krsna is not the husband of all the gopis. So, one can aspire to have Krsna as one's husband, even as a sadhaka aspiring for Vraja prema. Such an aspiration is not exclusive to the queens of Dwaraka, and some gopis prayed for it to Katyayani. Krsna fulfilled their desire without officially becoming their husband, and they gained His personal intimate association as priya sakhis who were not married to other men (kanyakas within parakiya rasa).
If only manjari or nitya sakhi bhava were possible for sadhakas, certainly VCT would not have said that some sadhana siddha gopis became his wives.
|
|
|
Post by niscala on Apr 4, 2015 6:49:36 GMT -5
Here is yet more very solid evidence from Ujjvala Nilamani, that aspiring to be a nitya-sakhi or maidservant of Radha, is not the only path for attaining the perfection of sadhana in madhurya rasa, as some contend.
In 3.37, the parodha woman is described: The cowherd women who are married to cowherd men but always desire enjoyment with Krsna, are called parodha.
These cannot be in the category of nitya sakhi or prana sakhi as they desire enjoyment with Krsna (sambhoga-lalasah- they hanker for union with Him)
Then in 3.41, three types of parodha are described: "There are three types of parodha: sadhana para (caused by practice), devi (heavenly women) and nitya priya (eternal condition)"
Furthermore, in texts 49-51, the exact sadhana of this type of sadhaka aspiring to be a priya sakhi, married to another, is described:
Those persns who have great attachment to parodha-bhava and are absorbed in raganuga sadhana, develop intense sadhana arising from their longing. After some time, they are born in Vraja singly, or in groups of two or three.
|
|