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Post by Brett on Jan 28, 2018 19:51:17 GMT -5
Also, some devotees say that they are 'devotional scholars' and must write so much and have 'no time' for chanting 64 rounds. They say they are 'helping people' instead by 'preaching.' They also extensively quote from Rupa Goswami and Raghunatha das Goswami's books to support their stance on 'raga marga without 64 rounds.' Yet here we find in Prema-vilasa:
sri rupa kaila laksha granthera varnana; tathapiha karila laksha nama grahana.
"Srila Rupa Goswami has explained and quoted from over 100,000 different scriptures. Even though he was such a great scholar and devotee he himself chanted 100,000 Holy Names daily.
dasa gosvamira ache laksha pramana; ei mata sarva bhakta kare harinama.
"Srila Raghunatha dasa Goswami also rigidly followed the instructions of Lord Gauranga by chanting 100,000 names daily. In this way all the devotees chanted the Holy Names of the Lord daily without exception.
gauranga shrimukhe rupe kahila vaishnave; laksha nama sankhya kari avasya karibe.
"Lord Gauranga gave the following instructions to all the Vaishnavas Himself and also through Srila Rupa Goswami: Please compulsorily chant 100,000 names of Krishna daily
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Shravn Prabhu Sacramento USA
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Post by Shravn Prabhu Sacramento USA on Feb 24, 2018 3:56:06 GMT -5
Chanting the Names of the Lord is the method and also the goal. If chanting the Names of the Lord is the aim of life, why do you all see chanting 64 rounds an impediment?
Path and the Goal of Raganuga or Gaudiya, as taught by Caitanya mahaprabhu is simple. It is chanting the Names of the Lord.
The more you chant, the more you arrived at the goal. Arriving at the goal is not an impediment. Its an achievement.
Hare Krishna. Happy Chanting.
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Post by Uttamasloka on Feb 27, 2018 12:42:03 GMT -5
Did everyone in this discussion say that chanting 64 rounds is an impediment? No they did not. Did even one person say that? I don't think anyone in this discussion has minimized the value or potency of chanting. Did you read all the posts carefully before making a false statement like this? Please read each post carefully before making accusations like that. In service, Uttamasloka dasa... Chanting the Names of the Lord is the method and also the goal. If chanting the Names of the Lord is the aim of life, why do you all see chanting 64 rounds an impediment? Path and the Goal of Raganuga or Gaudiya, as taught by Caitanya mahaprabhu is simple. It is chanting the Names of the Lord. The more you chant, the more you arrived at the goal. Arriving at the goal is not an impediment. Its an achievement. Hare Krishna. Happy Chanting.
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Post by Uttamasloka on Feb 27, 2018 12:45:01 GMT -5
Also, some devotees say that they are 'devotional scholars' and must write so much and have 'no time' for chanting 64 rounds. They say they are 'helping people' instead by 'preaching.' They also extensively quote from Rupa Goswami and Raghunatha das Goswami's books to support their stance on 'raga marga without 64 rounds.' I've never heard anyone say such things. Certainly no one on this thread. Who exactly are you referring to? So, are you chanting 100,000 names every single day? That is not a rhetorical question. In service, Uttamasloka dasa...
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Post by Brett on Apr 12, 2018 20:28:42 GMT -5
Uttamsloka: I've never heard anyone say such things. Certainly no one on this thread. Who exactly are you referring to? If you are not aware of anyone who speaks on advanced topics, yet fails to adhere to the Lord's and acaryas' very own practices and instructions on chanting 64 rounds, then you are quite in ignorance. I'm quite surprised that you've never come across such people. I've not seen (with very few exceptions and from looking through quite a few conversations here) that anyone asking questions on raga marga even mentions that chanting 64 rounds is essential practice for 'raga margis.' To avoid this crucial aspect of raganauga bhajan is a major fault. Anyone who doesn't chant 64 rounds and yet speaks on raganuga bhakti to any great extent and repeatedly certainly has a mindset and attitude that 64 rounds is ultimately not required. That's their deeply held conviction that has no basis in reality. That obviously comes through in their 'preaching.' You can easily tell because they practically never stress chanting the holy name. To them, it's almost irrelevant. Instead, they will talk of intimate topics and high tattva ONLY. At the very least there's no balance. At worst it is simply sahajiyaism and demonic. I am not going to name names, but these people are in every single formal and informal religious Gaudiya Vaisnava group I have met - ISKCON, GM, solo guru-types, Vrndavana babaji groups. All of them. And I've met many in many countries. They all do it. And it is not that they have a nameplate on their door stating they are 'devotional scholars,' but that is how they indeed carry themselves and advertise that way. They hold private and public classes, speak/ post on FB, etc. It's is a 'preach before practice' approach, which is the very opposite of genuine Gaudiya Vaisnavism. The result is that you get a lot of shallow preachers and preaching, and little to no genuine realization of nama bhajana tattva nor raganuga bhakti, due to ignorance, a lack of adhikara, or even conscious ill intent. Added to that is that a usual lack of humility, that they 'have nothing further to learn.' When asked question about why they do not ALSO follow the Lord's instructions on chanting, you will hear only excuses. As such, their preaching has no genuine potency to affect real change on the platform of raga marga for any individual. You can't have the egg with only half a chicken. Uttamsloka: So, are you chanting 100,000 names every single day? That is not a rhetorical question. Me: Yes. So, no doubt I will get some response that is attacking and passive aggressive. or even simply plain aggressive or challenging, rather than accepting of the Lord's and acaryas' instructions and actual practices. That's the usual response and I've never received any other I'm not holding my breath for anything different. But thanks for the questions regardless.
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Post by Brett on Apr 13, 2018 2:16:42 GMT -5
People don't have to 'say' something verbally to be expressing their deeply held beliefs, convictions and practices, no matter how far removed from the acaryas' teachings they may be. It is clear from their attitudes and speech content and behaviour.
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Post by amalagauradas on May 11, 2020 17:07:42 GMT -5
I hope I am not committing discussion faux-paux by resurrecting this thread on chanting.
The chanting of 64 rounds was obviously stressed by the acharyas and not negated by Shrila Prabhupada. To me there are two questions:
Is Shrila Prabhupada's minimum instructions of chanting 16 rounds enough of a pre-requisite for raga bhakti?
If we consider there are no qualifications, only sincerity needed for raga bhakti then I think in a theoretical way there is no pre-requisite for even 16 rounds. That is purely theoretical though.
Since the holy name will give us our advancement in spiritual life can you really be progressing in raga-bhakti if you are not chanting 64 rounds?
I think it is theoretically possible but questionable. The chanting of 64 rounds was stressed by our acharyas and treated as a mark of sincerity for a sadhaka. Purification from the holy names should result in more taste for chanting. We should not consider the instructions of Mahaprabhu as impractical for our day and age. It cannot be like some Puranic story of another planet. The efforts to chant more is what Shrila Prabhupada wanted for our purification.
Isn't this ultimately an issue between a guru and disciple? If the guru will help a devotee be purified and qualified for raga-bhakti, then shouldn't the guru, who is qualified in raga bhakti, instruct a disciple accordingly?
Unless we are ready to bestow raga bhakti on a student we really cannot say who has to do what. The Lord, through his devotee, can bestow the lobha on anyone and the Lord is the one to accept a devotee's surrender.
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Post by Uttamasloka on May 13, 2020 0:58:58 GMT -5
I hope I am not committing discussion faux-paux by resurrecting this thread on chanting. The chanting of 64 rounds was obviously stressed by the acharyas and not negated by Shrila Prabhupada. No, it was not 'obviously stressed by the acaryas'. That is not a true statement. It's not even mentioned in Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu, the handbook of Gaudiya Vaisnavism and its practices. It was not stressed by Jiva Gosvami or Sanatana Gosvami either in their books. So you are not correct about that. There are certainly some references but that does not constitute being 'obviously stressed'. Even Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati did not stress that and gave options to disicple according to their circumstances. There is no prerequisite regarding the number of rounds for raganuga-bhakti. No acaryas have mentioned that so your question is moot. The main prerequisite is lobha. Not a particular number of rounds. That is a mechanical mindset and absolutely antithetical to raganuga-bhakti. And it is also wrong. There most certainly are qualifications for raganuga-bhakti and I've outlined them in detail in my book, which you have now read, so you should know what they are.
You now should understand after reading my book that this question is not relevant because progressing in raganuga-bhakti has nothing to do with the number of rounds one chants. And if you think it does, you have not understood the abhidheya. Questionable by who? You? You have only just now learned about raganuga-bhakti so how are you any authority on this subject? You are not. No it was not treated as a mark of sincerity by the acaryas. That is false. Have you even read the acaryas' books? It doesn't sound like it. It sounds like you are just repeating something you have been told by someone else and you have accepted it without verification. We have already examined and analyzed various statements by the acaryas on this thread so there's no need to repeat that. That is a naive over simplification. There is much more to the abhidheya than only chanting. Otherwise, why did the acaryas write so many books that don't even mention chanting rounds. One may have many gurus and one's siksa-guru may be more influential than one's diksa-guru. One is blessed with lobha either by the mercy of another devotee who has lobha or by Krsna directly.
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