Post by Boiling the milk on Mar 2, 2015 8:12:37 GMT -5
Hare Krsna!
"Now we have got so many students and so many temples but I am fearful that if we expand too much in this way we shall become weakened and gradually the whole thing will become lost. Just like milk. We may thin it more and more with water for cheating the customer, but in the end it will cease to be any longer milk. Better to boil the milk now very vigorously and make it thick and sweet, that is the best process. So let us concentrate on training our devotees very thoroughly in the knowledge of Krsna consciousness from our books, from tapes, by discussing always, and in so many ways instruct them in the right propositions." (SPL to Hamsaduta, 22nd June, 1972)
How important is it to make a suitable environment for one's bhajan? We hear in ISKCON that outward preaching, 'saving souls' and being a 'gosthyanandi' is the 'best' way to serve guru and Krsna, with some time given for various 'retreats' to become 'spiritually recharged.' (Yes, these are all in inverted commas for a reason
So, what does everyone practically do and how does everyone manage these things? Doing the internal development as well as the external preaching, without becoming contaminated or losing focus?
Personally, I have to rise at 3.00am every single day and chant and read until 730 or 830 if possible and then take advantage of whatever time I can grab throughout the day for more of that. I also avoid all sorts of crowds, including at temples, festivals.
Cop out?
I prefer quiet solitude or close enough. I like going to peaceful places to chant, read, etc.
Not a recluse, but almost
For some reason I find that the crowds can be a little distracting.
I found that after so many years of 'actively engaged' that I had not become purified, not controlled my mind, not gotten a 'higher taste,' not gone any further than when I first joined. Same anarthas, if not worse.
Now, I made conscious decision to forcibly create an environment for myself more conducive to my spiritual life and that is helping.
"So you have to be fully in knowledge how to save yourself from the contamination of the modes of material nature. That is called gata-sangasya muktasya. Then you are free. So that is also stated, how you can become gata-sangasya. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita.
mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
[Bg. 14.26]
You have to situate yourself on the Brahman platform, spiritual platform. Mam ca yo 'vyabhi... And how it can do it? No. Avyabhicarini-bhakti-yogena. Bhakti-yoga. You have to perform bhakti-yoga.
Then what is that bhakti-yoga?
sravanam kirtanam visnoh
smaranam pada-sevanam
arcanam vandanam dasyam
sakhyam atma-nivedanam
[SB 7.5.23]
"These are the bhakti-yoga. You have to hear about Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Hearing, hearing, hearing, hearing, you can become mukta." Bhagavad-gita 4.23 -- Bombay, April 12, 1974
However, we hear of so many devotees who were recognised by Srila Prabhupada for their great sacrifices in the fire of sankirtana and preaching, so I would like to ask your opinions on this.
Of course, we could also ask, "Where are they now?" And how are such devotees currently situated in their devotional path? In good position? What's the general consensus?
"Be strong so that you may not be rascal, and then you can do; others you can check. Otherwise, it will be impossible. How it is possible? A man is drowning. If you are strong enough, you can save. But if you also become drowned, then how you'll save him? So the everything is there. Save yourself, save others. This is our Krsna consciousness movement. First of all save yourself; then try to save others. Or both things can go on simultaneously. The same example. If you want to save somebody who's drowning you must know that I may not be washed away. I have to remain strong; then I can save him." Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapur
I have heard the analogy that sometimes when there is an emergency war and the general just has to throw so many untrained or brand new soldiers onto the field with just a few days rifle training, knowing full well that many will not last.
When I joined there was no question of doing anything other than going out on the street every single day confronting gross materialists, making money, etc. Our TP honestly said his policy was exactly like throwing kids into the pool and seeing which ones sink or swim. To stay and read Prabhupada's books was to 'be in maya.' That was actually the preaching.
Looking back, I am not sure that was the best situation for newbies. Possibly, some extended time to remove oneself from the material atmosphere and learn the 'tools of the trade' - how to protect oneself from maya and make actual advancement, would have helped. Practically every single one of the devotees I joined with either left completely, or no longer actively practice.
People would join and leave all the time. It was like a revolving door.
The other concern is this:
"One who goes prematurely to Vrndavana to live in pursuance of the instructions of Sukadeva Gosvami again falls victim of maya, even while residing in Vrndavana. To check such unauthorized residence in Vrndavana, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura has sung a nice song in this connection, the purport of which is as follows: "My dear mind, why are you so proud of being a Vaisnava? Your solitary worship and chanting of the holy name of the Lord are based on a desire for cheap popularity, and therefore your chanting of the holy name is only a pretension. Such an ambition for a cheap reputation can be compared to the stool of a hog because such popularity is another extension of the influence of maya."
How to balance?
Thoughts?
"Now we have got so many students and so many temples but I am fearful that if we expand too much in this way we shall become weakened and gradually the whole thing will become lost. Just like milk. We may thin it more and more with water for cheating the customer, but in the end it will cease to be any longer milk. Better to boil the milk now very vigorously and make it thick and sweet, that is the best process. So let us concentrate on training our devotees very thoroughly in the knowledge of Krsna consciousness from our books, from tapes, by discussing always, and in so many ways instruct them in the right propositions." (SPL to Hamsaduta, 22nd June, 1972)
How important is it to make a suitable environment for one's bhajan? We hear in ISKCON that outward preaching, 'saving souls' and being a 'gosthyanandi' is the 'best' way to serve guru and Krsna, with some time given for various 'retreats' to become 'spiritually recharged.' (Yes, these are all in inverted commas for a reason
So, what does everyone practically do and how does everyone manage these things? Doing the internal development as well as the external preaching, without becoming contaminated or losing focus?
Personally, I have to rise at 3.00am every single day and chant and read until 730 or 830 if possible and then take advantage of whatever time I can grab throughout the day for more of that. I also avoid all sorts of crowds, including at temples, festivals.
Cop out?
I prefer quiet solitude or close enough. I like going to peaceful places to chant, read, etc.
Not a recluse, but almost
For some reason I find that the crowds can be a little distracting.
I found that after so many years of 'actively engaged' that I had not become purified, not controlled my mind, not gotten a 'higher taste,' not gone any further than when I first joined. Same anarthas, if not worse.
Now, I made conscious decision to forcibly create an environment for myself more conducive to my spiritual life and that is helping.
"So you have to be fully in knowledge how to save yourself from the contamination of the modes of material nature. That is called gata-sangasya muktasya. Then you are free. So that is also stated, how you can become gata-sangasya. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita.
mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
[Bg. 14.26]
You have to situate yourself on the Brahman platform, spiritual platform. Mam ca yo 'vyabhi... And how it can do it? No. Avyabhicarini-bhakti-yogena. Bhakti-yoga. You have to perform bhakti-yoga.
Then what is that bhakti-yoga?
sravanam kirtanam visnoh
smaranam pada-sevanam
arcanam vandanam dasyam
sakhyam atma-nivedanam
[SB 7.5.23]
"These are the bhakti-yoga. You have to hear about Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Hearing, hearing, hearing, hearing, you can become mukta." Bhagavad-gita 4.23 -- Bombay, April 12, 1974
However, we hear of so many devotees who were recognised by Srila Prabhupada for their great sacrifices in the fire of sankirtana and preaching, so I would like to ask your opinions on this.
Of course, we could also ask, "Where are they now?" And how are such devotees currently situated in their devotional path? In good position? What's the general consensus?
"Be strong so that you may not be rascal, and then you can do; others you can check. Otherwise, it will be impossible. How it is possible? A man is drowning. If you are strong enough, you can save. But if you also become drowned, then how you'll save him? So the everything is there. Save yourself, save others. This is our Krsna consciousness movement. First of all save yourself; then try to save others. Or both things can go on simultaneously. The same example. If you want to save somebody who's drowning you must know that I may not be washed away. I have to remain strong; then I can save him." Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapur
I have heard the analogy that sometimes when there is an emergency war and the general just has to throw so many untrained or brand new soldiers onto the field with just a few days rifle training, knowing full well that many will not last.
When I joined there was no question of doing anything other than going out on the street every single day confronting gross materialists, making money, etc. Our TP honestly said his policy was exactly like throwing kids into the pool and seeing which ones sink or swim. To stay and read Prabhupada's books was to 'be in maya.' That was actually the preaching.
Looking back, I am not sure that was the best situation for newbies. Possibly, some extended time to remove oneself from the material atmosphere and learn the 'tools of the trade' - how to protect oneself from maya and make actual advancement, would have helped. Practically every single one of the devotees I joined with either left completely, or no longer actively practice.
People would join and leave all the time. It was like a revolving door.
The other concern is this:
"One who goes prematurely to Vrndavana to live in pursuance of the instructions of Sukadeva Gosvami again falls victim of maya, even while residing in Vrndavana. To check such unauthorized residence in Vrndavana, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura has sung a nice song in this connection, the purport of which is as follows: "My dear mind, why are you so proud of being a Vaisnava? Your solitary worship and chanting of the holy name of the Lord are based on a desire for cheap popularity, and therefore your chanting of the holy name is only a pretension. Such an ambition for a cheap reputation can be compared to the stool of a hog because such popularity is another extension of the influence of maya."
How to balance?
Thoughts?
