|
Post by kvdd on Oct 14, 2015 11:08:03 GMT -5
Hare Krsna Prabhus, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to HDG Srila Prabhupada! I really liked this book that I downloaded earlier this year. I am trying to get it on my Ipad so I can read it again My question is whom can I hear from? I go on ISKCON desire tree to hear a class and I get overwhelmed by all the choices there. I get confused because I want to hear from pure devotees. I am just looking for your personal recommendations. Of course I regularly listen to HDG Srila Prabhupada and daily read SB. My Diksa Guru left his body some years ago and I don't have a relationship with a siksa guru. I am begging Srimati Radharani everyday for association with saintly devotees. I am so eager and so much hankering, so many years - I am so affected by association so want to regularly hear from someone who teaches along the lines of this book with previous acaryas and who can guide and inspire. Please share your inspirations with me! I relish hearing classes, usually in the mornings I listen to our local SB class, HDG SP and want to hear more. Who do you hear from? Thanks in advance so much! Your servant, KVdd
|
|
ishan
New Member
Posts: 9
|
Post by ishan on Oct 14, 2015 12:46:21 GMT -5
Dear kvdd,
Hare Krsna. First I'd like to welcome you to this forum and wish you all the best in extracting the most nectar possible out of it. And it is possible. If you don't mind, I would just like to add that we all have this (more or less) burning eagerness to hear from pure devotees, because we have understood the importance of that statement mentioned so many times in so many ways in so many scriptures and by so many acaryas. Quality, true quality, is often absent when we aim this high, which is also quite understandable given the time, place and circumstances we're in. When Srila Prabhupada speaks of 'pure' devotees in his books, the meaning can have a certain range, it's not cut and dried. He said that whoever sincerely follows the instruction of their guru 100% can be called a pure devotee. Of course, what we usually mean by this term is generally agreed by devotees knowledgeable in this matter to be a certain level of realization of one's own spiritual identity, and with specifics, too, not just 'I have realized I'm an eternal servant of Krsna.' When the practicing sadhaka enters the world of bhava-bhakti, and more so with prema-bhakti, the game changes completely. Now please don't mind me saying the following.
What we have been taught to see as 'pure' in ISKCON often falls short of the lauded standard, since hardly anyone manifests long-term and burning interest in the specifics of our spiritual identity and everything that goes with it. It's all ultimately vague and general, a collection of ideas meant to guide the beginner, but we're not really that much beginners anymore. After 30-40 years of practicing, as at least some of us are, if a devotee has been a sincere seeker, and not just tagging along for the ride, there will be some meaningful transformations within in the spiritual desires of that person. He\she may now have developed a desire to hear about specific Krsna's lilas in specific rasa, for instance. Preferences are developed further. If you have read Uttamasloka's book, and that is probably why you're here, you have been answered some questions and new ones have appeared in your mind. Now, a lecturer may be a guru or a sannyasi, some are more ascetic and renounced than others, some seem to show more intellectual acumen than others, and some are simply more experienced in life, so to speak. Which kind of lecturer do we prefer to hear from? And in the spirit of this forum, raganuga bhakti forum that is, are they lecturing on raganuga bhakti at all? Do they even understand what it is? Some do. Some, and this is sad, say that they do but they have no idea, even though they are generally accepted as grand and serious authorities by less experienced devotee folk. In my humble opinion, this is the 'acid test' you should be applying to all of them. How much do they know of the scriptures written by Rupa, Jiva, Sanatana, and Raghunatha dasa Gosvami and Visvanatha Cakravarti? I'd like to know that.
Prabhupada never actually wanted us to restrain ourselves from reading other Vaisnava literature except for his books. Where did his commentaries come from if not from the previous acaryas? He never deviated an inch from them, and yet today some still believe (and preach) that we should only read Prabhupada's books. Some think themselves humble and call themselves neophytes, but no matter how honest they are, they just deprive themselves from the incredible treasure trove that is the Gosvami literature.
My humble suggestion is that you read Uttamasloka's book again and discuss any questions you might have on this forum. There's also Facebook, of course, and personal e-mail for anything you might not be comfortable disclosing in public. Now, in which direction you want to develop your relationship with Krsna, is entirely up to you, but this forum is very useful for pointers and help. I personally prefer to read books and blogs instead of listening to lectures, but that's just me. Still, the devotees on this forum can help steer you in even more fruitful ways than you have seen before. I have found my spiritual life completely transformed since last spring after I joined. Because unless you're the most seasoned veteran of research of all time, there is always someone more well read, more experienced, who can verify/disprove what you have read/heard.
That was my inspiration from Krsna to write you this. I don't know how or why, but there it is. From my heart, again, I wish you welcome and all the best in your advancement and thank you for your association and enthusiasm.
ys Ishan Chaitanya das
|
|
|
Post by Uttamasloka on Oct 14, 2015 15:17:30 GMT -5
Very good response Ishan Caitanya!
I'm very glad to hear you liked my book. For your iPad, you can download the free Adobe Reader app, and then from your iTunes app you can copy the book to Adobe Reader as one of its files.
Ishan Caitanya explained about "pure devotees" and I also discussed that in chapter 4 of my book. Pure always means 'sincere' but it doesn't always mean 'fully realized' and that's the key distinction to understand and make.
I also agree with Ishan Caitanya that this forum is a wealth of information related to the topics discussed in my book and there are many devotees who have valuable insights into these topics, so take advantage of this facility to post any questions you may have. You can also eMail me personally if you want to discuss anything privately: Uttamasloka@bmf-vias.org
You can't go wrong listening to Srila Prabhupada and reading his books.
Personally, I take shelter of the books of the previous acaryas as referenced in my book and I engage in many discussions with various devotees who have also read my book and the acaryas' books, many of whom participate on this forum. I don't know of anyone in ISKCON who openly discusses raganuga-bhakti as we do here, so I can't recommend anyone. As Ishan Caitanya also said, there are many discussions on FaceBook as well. You can send me a Friend request and I'll connect you will other like-minded devotees there.
|
|
|
Post by Uttamasloka on Oct 14, 2015 15:19:10 GMT -5
Very good response Ishan Caitanya! I'm very glad to hear you liked my book. For your iPad, you can download the free Adobe Reader app, and then from your iTunes app you can copy the book to Adobe Reader as one of its files. Ishan Caitanya explained about "pure devotees" and I also discussed that in chapter 4 of my book. Pure always means 'sincere' but it doesn't always mean 'fully realized' and that's the key distinction to understand and make. Unfortunately, I doubt if you will find any good lectures from ISKCON about raganuga-bhakti. That's a sad fact, but it's the truth. I also agree with Ishan Caitanya that this forum is a wealth of information related to the topics discussed in my book and there are many devotees who have valuable insights into these topics, so take advantage of this facility to post any questions you may have. You can also eMail me personally if you want to discuss anything privately: Uttamasloka@bmf-vias.org You can't go wrong listening to Srila Prabhupada and reading his books. Personally, I take shelter of the books of the previous acaryas as referenced in my book and I engage in many discussions with various devotees who have also read my book and the acaryas' books, many of whom participate on this forum. I don't know of anyone in ISKCON who openly discusses raganuga-bhakti as we do here, so I can't recommend anyone. As Ishan Caitanya also said, there are many discussions on FaceBook as well. You can send me a Friend request and I'll connect you will other like-minded devotees there.
|
|
|
Post by Kvdd on Oct 14, 2015 18:18:57 GMT -5
Hare Krsna Prabhus, Thanks so much for your thorough replies!
"are they lecturing on raganuga bhakti at all? Do they even understand what it is? In my humble opinion, this is the 'acid test' you should be applying to all of them. How much do they know of the scriptures written by Rupa, Jiva, Sanatana, and Raghunatha dasa Gosvami and Visvanatha Cakravarti? I'd like to know that."
Exactly! That is whom I ant to hear from. Has anyone you know passed the 'acid test'? All these years I was more attracted to hearing philosophy. When I read this book it really clicked the on switch in my heart. Understanding that we are meant to serve in these pastimes really made me understand that it wasn't just reading or hearing about "Them" and here we are "us" as outsiders looking in. So now I have been really hankering to hear more and more, and I have developed more taste particularly of the humorous pastimes like in the Venu Gita. I want to hear, especially in the association of devotees.
"they just deprive themselves from the incredible treasure trove that is the Gosvami literature."
I relish reading but it seems I have more time for hearing actually. I seem to remember better from hearing. AS far as reading, is there a list of recommended books- I know you can find so many if you search and many have different translators and I don't know who is who. Is there a target list of recommended editions of the Goswami's books? I hope to have personal association as well- for example going on Parikrama- who can guide and reveal the dhama? I guess I am looking for hidden gems. There may be quite a few many advanced devotees who are very popular but I don't want to go in a massive crowd. I want to be able to ask questions but can not with a 'big guru'
"From my heart, again, I wish you welcome and all the best in your advancement and thank you for your association and enthusiasm."
Appreciated, thanks so much again! Your servant, Kvdd
|
|
|
Post by Kvdd on Oct 14, 2015 18:41:12 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by kbdd on Oct 14, 2015 19:30:51 GMT -5
Hare Krsna Uttamasloka prabhu, Sorry I am not sure why my above came out blank- I tried to preview but I was in quick reply and then I couldn't find a delete post option. All the questions and replies I posted above to Ishan Caitanya prabhu were for you too. (two)
"Unfortunately, I doubt if you will find any good lectures from ISKCON about raganuga-bhakti. That's a sad fact, but it's the truth."
Is there anyone 'outside' ISKCON you can recommend?
"there are many discussions on FaceBook as well. You can send me a Friend request and I'll connect you will other like-minded devotees there."
We are friends on FB. Is there a group on FB with such discussions? I can't handle going through the entire newsfeed if you know what I mean! I will send you a message there as well. Thanks for your guidance. Ys, Kvdd
|
|
|
Post by Uttamasloka on Oct 15, 2015 9:55:15 GMT -5
I don't keep track of other devotee's lectures posted online so I don't have any recommendations in that regard. I understand you prefer hearing audio, but at this stage I feel that directly studying the source books of the acaryas will be most effective for nourishing your current eagerness to learn more. Send me an eMail and I'll set you up with a systematic reading program, along with the translations I feel are the best available.
Your best bet for direct discussions and easy access is this forum. There are over 100 discussions so far. That will keep you busy for quite a while.
|
|