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Post by ashenkar on Dec 1, 2013 19:45:09 GMT -5
I've heard it said that the spiritual master is an external manifestation of the paramatma.
I've also read in your book that Krishna is the primary guru and that He appears through the paramatma and the guru. Meaning - Krishna gives you instructions both internally and externally.
Is it wrong or not quite correct to see the spiritual master as an external manifestation of the paramatma? Doesn't that kind of framing conflate guru with the paramatma? The internal with the external?
I can see potential for abuse when Krishna may instruct through the paramatma one thing, and then a person in a position of a 'guru' may instruct disciples something different, teaching them to ignore the paramatma and instead listen to him or her instead.
What are your thoughts Prabhu? -Alexander
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Post by Uttamasloka on Dec 1, 2013 22:41:15 GMT -5
Alexander: You are correct that the guru is the external manifestation of Krsna or Paramatma. Paramatma is Krsna's manifestation for our own individual personal care and guidance throughout our material sojourn.
But we should not misunderstand that to mean that the spiritual master is actually Krsna directly. He is Krsna's representative/agent and Krsna is speaking through him to the conditioned souls. Saksad hari tvena samasta sastrair... Krsna uses him as an instrument and the surrendered guru accepts that service. Of course that is under ideal circumstances and I'm talking about a genuine guru, ie: one who is fully sincere, advanced and surrendered, and ideally a realized devotee on the platform of bhava or prema. It becomes more complicated when the guru is not fully realized and is thus still prone to error and falling down.
If there are discrepancies between the guru's instructions and our internal guidance, we should consult sadhu and sastra to confirm and clarify the issue. If sadhu and sastra confirm our internal guidance we should then approach our guru to try to resolve the apparent discrepancies. Bhakti is a dynamic process and one should be thoughtful and discriminating and not merely a blind follower.
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Post by ashenkar on Dec 2, 2013 10:41:14 GMT -5
Thank you for the clarification.
I've also heard it said that a disciple should only take siksha from gurus approved by the diksha guru, and that the siksha gurus should clarify and corroborate the instructions of the diksha gurus. So again, there is the issue of conflating diksha with siksha gurus - with the upper hand and ultimate authority (no pun) given to diksha.
I ideally, since in principle the guru is one, there shouldn't be any dissonance, but this is the material world. And not all of the practical answers to every day decisions are spelled out in the sastras. So - sigh, its a difficult situation :-) Is there anything based on your studies that you can offer to help devotees who might find themselves in one of these situations?
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Post by Uttamasloka on Dec 2, 2013 14:34:15 GMT -5
I have also read what you have read about siksa and diksa gurus being harmonious and you're right that it is, or can be, rather complicated these days. I can't see the practicality of a siksa guru constantly confirming with the diksa guru what they can teach to the disciple. That is too constricting and not realistic. If the diksa guru recommends or confirms a siksa guru for their disciples, they should accept that this siksa guru is advanced and qualified as such. Keep in mind that one's diksa guru ideally should be one's primary siksa guru as well because siksa is the most important thing for continued progress.
If one learns something from a siksa guru that contradicts the diksa guru's teachings, then the disciple should approach the diksa guru and discuss these things openly with him/her. And the siksa guru could even be included in those discussions. These days, it's quite possible that a siksa guru may be more advanced and learned than one's diksa guru, so the diksa guru may not be fully equipped to teach more advanced subjects. Under those circumstances, one would hope that the diksa guru would defer to the more advanced siksa guru and even be humble enough to take siksa from him/her themselves.
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Post by ashenkar on Dec 2, 2013 14:53:04 GMT -5
Thank you - that was a satisfying answer.
I think your next book might need to be on how to apply ideal philosophy in a complicated material world :-)
I really look forwarding to diving deeper into the book.
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Post by Uttamasloka on Dec 2, 2013 15:31:07 GMT -5
I hope that this discussion forum would be seen as a dynamic "book" regarding the deeper understanding and implementations of the subjects discussed in my book. That was its intended purpose. So far so good, I think.
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Post by muraridas on Jun 4, 2014 4:51:36 GMT -5
"Necessity is the mother of invention." One's attunement to perceiving guru everywhere is directly in proportion to one's eagerly wanting emancipation from material existence. Along with this is of course purity of heart. Even though Srila Prabhupada has gifted the western world with literature such as Krsna Book, which allows devotees to become familiar with the Gokula Vrindavan pastimes, it is wonderful that Uttama Sloka Prabhu has systematically organised a roadmap for those serious to advance towards Krsna Prema. Personally, I was counted amongst those devotees who believed that simply by chanting hare krsna one can reach a certain stage of purity and one's siddha deha and krsna lila would naturally awaken within the heart without any other endeavour. However, if we think about it; even if this were the case, how would we assimilate or recognise the various personalities in Krsna lila if we hadn't already engaged in a preliminary study of them? I can now understand that we must simultaneously familiarise ourselves with the details of the transcendental realm of Goloka Vrindavan in order to 'bridge the gap' in attracting deeper levels of Krsna Consciousness to develop in our hearts.
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Vrindavan das
Junior Member
"This crying is the last word in the progressive path of devotional service." - SB 3.4.35 purport
Posts: 57
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Post by Vrindavan das on Jun 11, 2015 11:29:08 GMT -5
Devotee 1: Sabda-brahma is Krishna in sound vibration?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. One has to hear. It is not that, "All right, tapes are there, I'll hear the recorded tapes." Sabda-brahma will never descend.
Devotee 2: It doesn't descend through transmission of tape?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, no.
Devotee 2: Only when you are personally sitting there with a pure vaisnava?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Now in this material scientific age so many techniques are there. People, say, "No more teacher are required. We'll teach through television." Nonsense. Sabda-brahma will never descend.
Devotee 3: What if one is a disciple of a bonafide guru, then later on that guru stops his lila. What should one do?
Gour Govinda Swami: Lila is always there:
adyapiha sei lila kare gaura-raya,
kona kona bhagyavan dekhibare paya
(Cb. quoted in Bhaktivinode Thakur's Navadvipa Mahatmya Pramana-khanda)
Gauranga's pastimes are still going on. People say, "Oh Gauranga Mahaprabhu has disappeared." One who is very fortunate and has vision he can see how gaura-lila is going on.
Devotee 3: That means that guru is always there?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. He is always there. His lila is going on.
Devotee 3: I may think, "I have already taken the dust of the lotus feet of my guru. Now he is not here. So I don't need that dust anymore."
Gour Govinda Swami: Darsana is there. The guru is always there if you have the eye to see. If you are a sat-sisya you can always see how the guru is present.
Devotee 4: How can we see guru?
Gour Govinda Swami: Blind man! If you are endowed with that vision you can see.I never lost sight of my guru. I see my guru is always there. Therefore I cannot say,"nitya-lila-pravistha". It is so painful to me. No! He is here.
Devotee 4: Do you have to be a pure dovotee to see a pure devotee?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes! That vision is required. If you have no vision then you are a blind man.How can a blind man see? The object is there. What is required to see the object? The first thing is the eye. Next is light. You may be endowed with vision, but if there is no light, how can you see? Can you see in the darkness? Therefore two things are required, first vision and then light. Even if you are endowed with eyes, if there is no light then you can't see. What is that light? The enlightenment by the mercy potency. If you are devoid of that, how can you see?
Devotee 5: Anarthas are like clouds in front of the eye?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, Yes. Anarthas are like clouds covering the sun. The eye is covered.
Devotee 2: Can one see guru appearing in different forms, or is he coming in dreams?
Gour Govinda Swami: He may come in a dream. He has different forms also, just as Krishna has different forms. Krishna has so many manifestations. Therefor we have described in our book Sri Guru-vandana about samasti-guru and vyasti-guru.
Devotee 6: What are those kind of gurus?
Gour Govinda Swami: Guru Krsna-rupa hana sastrera pramane (Cc. adi-lila1.45} -- scripture describes that it is Krishna who appears as guru.
Krishna is one. Guru tattva is also one. Guru is one, but he appears in different, different, forms. That is samasti-guru. The particular forms such as Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami, Srila Bhakitisiddhanta, this person and that, this is vyasti-guru.
Devotee 3: When Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati left, guru was still there?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee 3: Guru is always present?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, always present.
Devotee 3: Because guru is non-different from Krishna we understand that to be a guru is not an easy thing. So why is it said that someone maybe on the level of kanistha or madhyama and be guru?
Gour Govinda Swami: All are gurus. There is kanistha-guru, madhyama-guru, uttama-gurus. Divisions are there. What you deserve you get. Krishna knows what you deserve so He makes an appropriate arrangement for you.
Devotee 7: Some devotees are not accepting guru now. They are saying, "I'll just accept sastra."
Gour Govinda Swami: How can you understand sastra?
Devotee 7: But we have seen, as in Russia, that some devotees have only gotten books and they are now chanting, worshiping the deity, and preaching.
Gour Govinda Swami: You cannot understand. In sastra, mantra is there. Nama is there. But unless it comes out from the lips of sad-guru, Sri Guru, your chanting will never be effective. The potency will never be there.
Devotee 7: But they say that smrti-sastra is coming from the lips of vaisnavas, so we are hearing smrti.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. This is how sastra manifests. When is comes out from the lips of sad-guru, Sri Guru, then it manifests. Though sastra is there, by itself it will never manifest to you. It's a question of manifestation.
Devotee 7: Other persons say that we can hear from the commentaries of the vaisnava-acaryas.
Gour Govinda Swami: For that reason it is said,
bhaktya bhagavatam grahyam
na buddhya na ca tikaya
Srimad Bhagavatam can only be understood by bhakti, not be dint of one's intelligence or by reading commentaries. (Cc.24.313)
You cannot understand Bhagavata by taking help of the tikas, commentaries. So many commentaries are there. One may think, "Yes, I am a scholar. It is all written in Sanskrit. I know the language so I can read and understand it." No! You can only understand Srimad Bhagavatam by bhakti. You cannot understand Bhagavata by dint of your material scholarship, learning, intelligence, or by taking the help of the commentaries. No, no. Hear from acarya and then you can develop bhakti. Unless you hear, how can you understand just by reading? You cannot understand. Grantha-avatara will never manifest to you. You will only see paper, and black and white. Nothing else.
Devotee 7: Then what is the meaning of the brhad-mrdanga-sankirtana? Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati has said that our kirtana is brhad-mrdanga-sankirtana, the printing press.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. That will inspire you. Just one book distributed spreads so far. First you read the book and then one friend says, "Oh, let me read it." Then he lets someone else read it. In this way it sprads so much. The sound of the mrdanga only goes rom here to there. But the brhad-mrdanga spreads so far. That will inspire you. You will think, "Who is the source? Let me go and see and hear from him."
Devotee 7: So first you hear and then if you read the same thing in the sastra...
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. It is only in Kali-yuga that books are required.. In other yugas there are no books. Just by hearing once they would never forget. But in this yuga, if I ask you to repeat what you have heard after the class, how much can you repeat? You will have already forgotton ninety to ninety-five percent. Only five percent you may be able to repeat. Books are required. Therefore Vyasadev came and wrote books. In other yugas there are no books. They will help you remember, "Oh yes. I have heard. Now it is here."
Devotee 7: In your book Sri Guru-vandana, you have described this flow of nectar as padma-madhu.You said that it comes to a devotee who is a sincere hearer. So someone who is very sincere to hear from guru and serves guru, he may get that nectar even though he may not have physical contact?
Gour Govinda Swami: You should be greedy. Physical contact is required. You must hear directly, not just by listening to tapes. Sabda-brahma will never descend through a tape. One must hear from a physically present Sri Guru.
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Post by Uttamasloka on Jun 11, 2015 14:29:21 GMT -5
Srila Prabhupada presents a different perspective than Gaura Govinda Maharaja.
From Srila Prabhupada's purport for SB, 2.9.8:
There is no difference between the Lord and sound vibration coming from Him, even though He is not personally present. The best way of understanding is to accept such divine instruction, and Brahmā, the prime spiritual master of everyone, is the living example of this process of receiving transcendental knowledge.
The potency of transcendental sound is never minimized because the vibrator is apparently absent. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā or any revealed scripture in the world is never to be accepted as an ordinary mundane sound without transcendental potency.
By regular attendance in classes on the Bhāgavatam and by rendering of service to the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact. SB, 1.2.18
From Srila Prabhupada’s Purport:
Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart, which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization. The remedy is the association of the Bhāgavatas. There are two types of Bhāgavatas, namely the book Bhāgavata and the devotee Bhāgavata. Both the Bhāgavatas are competent remedies, and both of them or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles.
A devotee Bhāgavata is as good as the book Bhāgavata because the devotee Bhāgavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhāgavata and the book Bhāgavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhāgavatas. Bhāgavata book and person are identical.
Srila Prabhupada lecture, The Nectar of Devotion, Vrndavana, October 20, 1972:
But in this life, if we develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness by association of devotees... As Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung, tāṅdera caraṇa-sevi-bhakta-sane vāsa. One's aim of life should be to serve the ācāryas. Ācārya upāsanam.
So our ācārya in the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava Sampradāya, the śrī-rūpa sanātana bhaṭṭa-raghunātha, śrī-jīva gopāla-bhaṭṭa dāsa-raghunātha, the Six Gosvāmīns, and if we associate with them... this book, Nectar of Devotion, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, if you read regularly, try to understand, this means you are associating with Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī directly. And if you act accordingly, then you are serving their lotus feet."
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Post by niscala on Jun 13, 2015 3:03:00 GMT -5
Uttamasloka: If one learns something from a siksa guru that contradicts the diksa guru's teachings, then the disciple should approach the diksa guru and discuss these things openly with him/her.
That might be hard to do since mostly they have more important things to do than discuss their disciples' doubts. I was initiated twice and never had a connection with either guru, but I tried very hard with the second one. I wrote him a string of letters, voicing my doubts and issues. No reply from any of them. Finally I became interested in some GBC banned books as they made a lot of sense and were based on sastra. On someone's suggestion I wrote to him again and asked him if it would be OK to read these books, and if he had any objection, then let me know. Of course he didn't write back- again. So I eventually was so affected by these books that I took the author of these books as my second siksa guru, and we exchanged emails up to four a day, until all my doubts about the philosophy and the process were cleared- on the basis of sastra.
My conclusion is that a guru- diksa or siksa- is not created from a ceremony or rubberstamp GBC approval. Srila Prabhupada said (I have the quote somewhere) that the important thing is that KNOWLEDGE is given by the guru, and accepted and taken to heart by the disciple, and that the ceremony is not important.
So, my point is that real guru is one who gives knowledge to the disciple. If they don't, they cannot justly be called gurus, though they might be nice devotees in other ways. Whoever is committed to your spiritual advancement is real guru, and in due course he may become diksa guru. Whoever is not, is not.
If they show enough interest in your spiritual life that they will discuss something you have heard from your siksa guru, and they disagree but can't back up their opinion with sastra, whereas the siksa guru's opinion is completely backed up by sastra, then one should accept the siksa guru's opinion, because everything must be backed up by sastra. If the diksa guru cannot do so, and preaches against what is in the sastra, his teaching should be rejected.
He should still be respected as a devotee however. Every person who chants should be offered respects and no one should be disrespected, even if he disappointed you as a guru- the disappointment is all part of the learning process- who is a real guru- by first learning who is not.
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Post by niscala on Jun 13, 2015 3:15:23 GMT -5
>>You cannot understand Bhagavata by taking help of the tikas, commentaries. So many commentaries are there. One may think, "Yes, I am a scholar. It is all written in Sanskrit. I know the language so I can read and understand it." No! You can only understand Srimad Bhagavatam by bhakti. You cannot understand Bhagavata by dint of your material scholarship, learning, intelligence, or by taking the help of the commentaries. No, no. Hear from acarya and then you can develop bhakti."
Taking help from the commentaries is not material scholarship, and we should use our intelligence to come to Krsna "I give them the intelligence by which they come to Me" That is bhakti, as the acaryas defined it- using everything in Krsna's service- thinking, speaking, hearing, etc.
But he may have been speaking in terms of time, place and circumstance, perhaps to a devotee who was very proud of his learning or intelligence. If one is proud, then it contaminates everything. If one gives in charity even to spread Krsna consciousness, but is very proud of his donation, then it spoils the offering with mundane consciousness. Similarly if one is proud of one's learning or intelligence, even if it is being used for Krsna, the effort is tainted, and at that time the guru may stress that bhakti needs to be added to this endeavor- the consciousness that one is very fallen, tiny and helpless and that all ability comes from Krsna, through the mercy of the guru.
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Post by Vraja Vilasa dasa on Jun 13, 2015 7:34:48 GMT -5
Hare Krsna Vrndavana prabhu, My conviction is that the mere existence of this book of Uttamasloka prabhu's is a sure sign that Krsna is continuing to provide us all with all kinds of essential assistance, both externally and internally, as required, to advance in our spiritual lives. Appropriate siksa from Krsna (at least for some lucky souls), via this book, is clearly continuing, and at least for myself, in a very positive way. It is helping many of us to continue our spiritual progress, to move from vaidhi to raganuga bhakti, in an authorised and scientific manner, with everything being confirmed internally, and via sastra and sadhu/ guru. To me anyway, it is very clear that Srila Prabhupada and the previous acaryas are continuing to provide us with the necessary guidance and direction to make steady progress towards our ultimate goal. All he is doing really is pointing us to the previous acaryas anyway, so what's the problem? I don't have any problems with this siksa at all. In fact, it has been life transforming. For me, I consider both the book, and Uttamasloka prabhu's answers to mine and others' queries, to be excellent siksa. Whether Uttamasloka prabhu is a 'living bhagavata,' a 'self-realized soul' is not really the whole point of his book, nor this forum. He is providing us with the necessary information to take up raga marga properly, if we do desire. It is very empowering, helping me and others to understand this philosophy more deeply, to actually become Krsna conscious. It is not that Krsna, Lord Caitanya, or the previous acaryas only wanted a few select personalities to become self realized, take up raga marga. It is for everyone: "Any jiva can acquire the right to become a vraja-vasini when impelled by his innate svabhava and the resolute cultivation of the pertinent abhimana. Only those who possess such an unwavering desire for madhurya-rasa are eligible to become vraja-vasinis. When a person's sadhana complements his ruci, he attains perfection accordingly." Jaiva Dharma And Uttamasloka is providing exactly that direction - how to perform raganuga sadhana bhakti to complement one's ruci. Really, he has unlocked the box for us. The timing appears right, is ripe, to provide this information in a safe manner. And first, he is clearing up all the misconceptions we all have about the actual process, a big endeavour on its own. In any case, according to the acaryas' commentaries on Upadesamrta text 5, one of the symptoms of a maha bhagavat is that he is "ever alert to perform manasa seva in asta kaliya lila," so that is one thing to look for in a 'self-realized soul.' By taking up the process as given, we will also be able to benefit from the association of such maha bhagavatas if and when we get their association. At best, we should be performing that mental seva ourselves. And, if a 'spiritual master' is not 'forever alert to render mental service in asta kaliya lila' then he is not an uttama bhakta, at least according to this commentary: "The best devotees are those who are devoid of the tendency to blaspheme others and who, being exclusively devoted to Sri Sri Radha Krsna, are forever alert to render service mentally to Their asta kaliya lila. Knowing such devotees to be established in the particular mood of service to Sri Sri Radha Krsna for which one aspires, affectionately disposed towards oneself and the topmost association, one should honour them in all respects by offering prostrated obeisance, making relevant inquiry and rendering service with great affection. One should understand the eminence of Vaisnavas according to this gradation." Upadesmrta Text 5 commentary by Radha Ramana Goswami (who is glorified by SBSST in the same book's commentary). And regardless, we will still have to take the responsibility to practice the processes of raganuga bhakti as given by the acaryas, whether we are sitting at their feet or not. How much time will we be able to spend with the 'self-realized souls' anyway? How much time can they give us? A genuinely advanced guru will be able to guide a disciple on the path of raganuga bhakti, or direct him/ her to someone who can - suitable siksa, if he has no time for it. I would hope that any spiritual master would direct their disciples to books such as Uttamsloka's to help prepare them to understand and embark upon the path of raganuga bhakti, which is required to go back home, if they personally are not qualified to give that guidance. That will also help them understand exactly what sort of association will benefit them. Vaidhi bhakti will not take us to Goloka, that is clear. Without raganuga bhakti, we are not really following Rupa Goswami, we cannot be happy, nor get we out of maya. In that case, who can put a value on the contribution of Uttamasloka prabhu's contribution to the general community of devotees? "Vaidhi bhakti is very slow and raganuga bhakti is very swift. Following it, one swiftly comes to the rasas. By following the path of raga one attains ruci (attachment) in his heart. The followers of Srila Rupa Gosvami follow this path. As long as he engages in raganuga spiritual activities, the soul in the material world is happy. As long as he does not engage in raganuga spiritual activities, the soul in the material world is attracted to the illusions of maya." "Lord Caitanya taught that the tendencies of the jiva suddenly manifest through the raganuga process. Lord Caitanya has approved of worship in the raga mode (raga marga). If a soul by good fortune gets association with devotees who have the mercy of Gauranga, he will certainly become greedy for the mood of the Vraja vasis. But as long as he does not have such association, he must practice vaidhi bhakti. Just on taking shelter of the lotus feet of Gauranga he enters the path of raga. Those eager for the path of spontaneous attraction first practice raganuga bhakti. In practicing raganuga bhakti the person quickly develops an extremely high qualification. On attaining greed for the mood of the Vraja vasis, no other attraction remains. When that greed arises, the practitioner immediately becomes completely disinterested in sinful action, piety, social duty, neglect of duty, forbidden actions, speculation, and dry renunciation. Dasa Mula Tattva We also need to get that association that corresponds to our own innate service mood and desires. One has to find some devotees who of similar sentiment to oneself. We can't remain an island: "Exchanging love with devotees who are of the same aspiration as oneself and who are affectionate to oneself enhances one’s bhakti. Offering and accepting items, revealing confidential realisations to one another, and serving and accepting food are all activities that increase affection. One should not perform these activities with those of different aspirations in life than one’s own." SBSST Upadesmrta Text 4 commentary. So we all must find that sanga which is of the same inclination, affectionate to oneself, positive, nourishing, helpful, authoritative, practically useful and enlivening, here or there. No one, not Uttamasloka prabhu, is denying that direct personal association with maha bhagavata devotee who is of similar sentiment to oneself, is affectionate, etc. (as above) is not the ideal situation. In the absence of that, what to do? Nothing, or prepare oneself, and practice bhakti yoga as prescribed by the acaryas, take their siksa directly? Get siksa from others, from at least madhyamas fixed in raganuga? I say take up the help as Krsna sends it, in whatever form it comes. Confirm everything internally and via sastra and sadhu. If it lines up, go for it. Start on the path. We don't want to miss the assistance that is given to us on a plate, while we go searching for a 'maha bhagavata' to sit at and hear from. If and when that time comes, we will be able to take full advantage and appreciate so much more. However, this book and the contents contained therein, is not for everyone at every given point in time. That is a given. Your servant, Vraja Vilasa dasa
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Vrindavan das
Junior Member
"This crying is the last word in the progressive path of devotional service." - SB 3.4.35 purport
Posts: 57
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Post by Vrindavan das on Jun 13, 2015 9:26:43 GMT -5
Dear Vraja Vilasa prabhu There's so much here to properly digest in order to come to the proper Vaisnava conclusion and thus proceed straight on the path pf pure bhakti. We are eager, hungry, we have such a big appetite, we can almost taste it, we just need the right association to propel us into the realm of the raganuga sadhana bhajan. "To answer this argument, it is described here that one has to associate with liberated persons not directly, physically, but by understanding, through philosophy and logic, the problems of life." (Srimad Bhagavatam 3:31:48) "There are two ways of association - by vani and by vapu. Vani means words, and vapu means physical presence. Physical presence is sometimes appreciable and sometimes not, but vani continues to exist eternally. Therefore we must take advantage of the vani, not the physical presence. Bhagavad-gita, for example, is the vani of Lord Krsna. Although Krsna was personally present five thousand years ago and is no longer physically present from the materialistic point of view, Bhagavad-gita continues." (Caitanya Caritamrta, Antya 5 Conclusion) "I understand that you are feeling my absence. Krishna will give you strength. Physical presence is immaterial; presence of the transcendental sound received from the spiritual master should be the guidance of life. That will make our spiritual life successful." (Letter to Brahmananda and other students, 19/1/67) "The instruction given in my books is supposed to be personal instruction. When we read the Bhagavad-gita As It Is, it is understood that we are receiving personal instructions of Krsna. No physical barrier is there in the case of spiritual affairs." (Letter to Dhrstaketu, 14th October, 1973) "In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is explained fully so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop." (Letter to Bahurupa, November 22nd, 1974) "All questions will be clarified if you simply read our books very thoroughly and follow the simple process of devotional service as we have given it to chant regularly and rigidly observe the rules and regulations. This is our principle that the spiritual science becomes revealed to the devotee from within the heart according to the degree of his surrender to Krsna." (Letter to Ekayani, 25th july, 1970) "Actually I have already answered all questions in my books such as Bhagavad-gita, so kindly read them and chant Hare Krishna Mantra." (Letter to Brian Fleming, March 6th 1974) "I am very keen on the distribution of my books and I am very indebted to all of you for your untiring efforts to see that every man and woman in America get one of my books. If they simply read one page, even if they do nothing else, they can become perfect." (Letter to Hari basara, April 20, 1974) "These books are so nice that anyone who reads them is sure to become Krishna Conscious." (Letter to Sukadeva, March 25th, 1971) "Simply if one will read our KRSNA book, TLC, NOD, and Bhagavad-Gita As It Is, he will surely become a Krishna Conscious person." (Letter to Nityananda April 1 1971) "Even if one does not read the book but simply holds if and sees it, he is benefitted." (Letter to German Disciples, May 6th, 1977) Yes, we need help. From a room conversation, from January 27th, 1977, in Bhubaneswar, we have the following exchange: Pradyumna: Guru-padasrayah. "First one must take shelter of the lotus feet of a spiritual master." Tasmat Krishna- diksadi-siksanam. Tasmat, "from him", Krishna- diksadi-siksanam, "one should take Krishna-Diksa, initiation, and Siksa. Srila Prabhupada: Diksa means divya-jnanam ksapayati iti diksa. Which explains the divya-jnana, transcendental, that is diksa. Di, divya, diksanam. diksa. So divya-jnana, transcendental knowledge... If you don't accept a spiritual master, how you'll get transcen... you'll be taught here and there, here and there, and waste time. Waste time for the teacher and waste your valuable time. Therefore you have to be guided by an expert spiritual master. Read it. Pradyumna: Krishna-diksadi-siksanam. Srila Prabhupada: Siksanam. We have to learn. If you don't learn, how you'll make progress? Then? ys Vrindavan das
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Post by Vraja Vilasa dasa on Jun 13, 2015 17:52:49 GMT -5
Hare Krsna prabhu!
Re this quote:
Pradyumna: Guru-padasrayah. "First one must take shelter of the lotus feet of a spiritual master." Tasmat Krishna- diksadi-siksanam. Tasmat, "from him", Krishna- diksadi-siksanam, "one should take Krishna-Diksa, initiation, and Siksa.
Srila Prabhupada: "Diksa means divya-jnanam ksapayati iti diksa. Which explains the divya-jnana, transcendental, that is diksa. Di, divya, diksanam. diksa. So divya-jnana, transcendental knowledge... If you don't accept a spiritual master, how you'll get transcen... you'll be taught here and there, here and there, and waste time. Waste time for the teacher and waste your valuable time. Therefore you have to be guided by an expert spiritual master."
I would argue that, although we cannot claim to be direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada, we have received 'diksa' by and from Srila Prabhupada (in the sense given above), and are also accepting him as our main siksa guru, and have thus taken full shelter of him, and are continuing on with the faith in the arrangements he is making for us to make progress, of which Uttamasloka's book is a clear sign.
For me, I never left ISKCON for siksa, and had the faith that Krsna would make an arrangement for me within the institution, according to my qualification and desire, as required, which He has done at different times,.
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
Your servant,
Vraja Vilasa dasa
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Vrindavan das
Junior Member
"This crying is the last word in the progressive path of devotional service." - SB 3.4.35 purport
Posts: 57
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Post by Vrindavan das on Jun 13, 2015 18:02:22 GMT -5
Haribol prabhu! Yes, I agree with you 100%. I received the following letter from Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja saying the same thing:
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