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Post by 108sahajiyanatha on Aug 26, 2015 0:13:09 GMT -5
Questions for Uttama Prabhu;
"Nanda Mahārāja returned to Vṛndāvana without Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma. He was accompanied only by the cowherd boys and men. It was certainly a very pathetic scene for the gopīs, mother Yaśodā, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī and all the inhabitants and residents of Vṛndāvana. Many devotees have tried to make adjustments to Kṛṣṇa's being away from Vṛndāvana because according to expert opinion, Kṛṣṇa, the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, never goes even a step out of Vṛndāvana. He always remains there. The explanation of expert devotees is that Kṛṣṇa was actually not absent from Vṛndāvana; HE CAME BACK with Nanda Mahārāja as promised.
When He was going to Mathurā on the chariot driven by Akrūra and the gopīs were practically blocking the way, Kṛṣṇa assured them that He was coming back just after finishing His business in Mathurā. He told them not to be overwhelmed, and in this way He pacified them. But when He did not come back with Nanda Mahārāja, it appeared that He either cheated them or could not keep His promise. Expert devotees, however, have decided that Kṛṣṇa was neither a cheater nor a breaker of promises. Kṛṣṇa, IN HIS ORIGINAL IDENTITY, RETURNED with Nanda Mahārāja and stayed with the gopīs and mother Yaśodā in His bhava EXPANSION. Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma remained in Mathurā, not in Their original forms, but in Their expansions as Vāsudeva and Saṅkarṣaṇa. The real Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma were in Vṛndāvana in Their bhava manifestation, whereas in Mathurā They appeared in the prabhava and vaibhava expansions. This is the expert opinion of advanced devotees of Kṛṣṇa. But when Nanda Mahārāja was preparing to return to Vṛndāvana, there was discussion among him, Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma as to how the boys could live in separation from Nanda. The conclusion to separate was reached by mutual agreement."
1) The bhava expansion that Srila Prabhupada talks about is it the same way of saying avirbhava or are the two different forms?
2) By saying bhava EXPANSION it almost seems to imply that it is not Svayama-rupa otherwise why say the word EXPANSION? please clarify this.
3)If bhava form is the Svayama then Svayama goes out for couple of days to Mathura and then quickly returns is that right?
Saratha Darsini mentions there were 2 sets of forms of Krsna and the Vrajabasis; one feeling the separation the other experiencing the bliss of union both were co-simultaneously existing without being aware of the other set. Are we to conclude that Svayama goes out of Vraja for a couple of days then invisibly returns with Nanda Baba and re-unites with the other Vrajabasis and that is what is meant by "never goes even a step out of Vṛndāvana"?
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Post by Uttamasloka on Aug 26, 2015 20:02:32 GMT -5
I'm not sure. I'd have to do some research to verify that.
Good question. Since we know svayam-rupa Krsna never leaves Vrndavana, I am assuming that Srila Prabhupada's use of the word 'expansion' is not literal. Sometimes Srila Prabhupada used terms in a broad way like that, eg: he sometimes used the term 'siddha-deha' to refer to one's fully perfected form at the stage of svarupa-siddhi, ie: bhava, whereas the previous acaryas used it more often in conjunction with one's mentally conceived internal spiritual form, as implemented in raganuga-bhakti bhajana.
It would appear that way according to Srila Prabhupada's explanation. I don't have any additional reference to offer any further clarification or insights.
The two manifestations explained by Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura are termed 'prakashas'.
That is how Srila Prabhupada explained it. I had thought that the Vasudeva form left Vrndavana and the svayam-rupa form remained, but Srila Prabhupada is explaining it differently, so I'll defer to his explanation unless someone has additional information.
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Post by RadhaCharan Das on Dec 1, 2015 7:15:48 GMT -5
From SRILA RUPA GOSVAMI'S SRI LAGHU-BHAGAVATAMRTA
Text 454
kecid bhägavatäh prähur
evam atra purätanah
vyuhäh prädurbhaved ädyo
griheshv änakadundubheh
goshöhe tu mäyayä särdham
shri-lilä-purushottamah
kecit-some; bhagavatah-devotees; prahuh-have said; evam-in this way; atra-here; puratanah-in ancient times; vyuhah-the catur-vyuha expansion of Lord Vasudeva; pradurbhavet-was manifest; adyah-first; grhesu-in the home; anakadundubheh-of Maharaja Vasudeva; gosthe-in Vrajabhumi; tu- however; mayaya-by Yogamaya; sardham-accompanied; shri-lila-purusa-uttamah- Shri Krishëa, who is engaged in His incomparable pastimes.
In ancient times some devotees have said that the Lord appeared in His Väsudeva feature in the home of Mahäräja Vasudeva, and at the same time He appeared, along with Yogamäyä, in His original form as Shri Krishëa in the village of Vraja.
Text 455
gatvä yadu-varo goshöham
tatra suti-griham vishan
kanyäm eva param vikshya
tam ädäyävrajat puram
prävishad vasudevas tu
shri-lilä-purushottamam
gatva-having gone; yadu-varah-Maharaja vasudeva,the best of the Yadus; gostham-to Vraja; tatra-there; suti-grham-the maternity-room; visan- entering; kanyam-the daughter; eva-certainly; param-then; viksya-seeing; tam-her; adaya-taking; avrajat-went; puram-to Mathura; pravisat- entered; vasudevah-the vasudeva expansion; tu-but; shri-lila-purusa-uttamam-the form of Shri Krishëa.
When Mahäräja Vasudeva arrived in Vraja, he entered the maternity room, saw (Yashodä's) daughter and, taking her with him, returned to Mathurä. The Väsudeva expansion (Mahäräja Vasudeva carried with him) then merged in the body of Shri Krishëa.
Text 456
etac cäti-rahasyatvän
noktam tatra kathä-krame
kintu kvacit prasangena
sucyate shri-shukädibhih
etat-this; ca-also; ati-rahasyatvat-because of being very confidential; na-was not; uktam-said; tatra-there; katha-krame-in the account of Shri Krishëa's appearance; kintu-however; kvacit-in some places; prasangena-by context; ucyate-is indicated; shri-suka-adibhih-by great devotees, headed by Shrila Sukadeva Gosvami.
Because this pastime is very confidential, it was not related in the Shrimad-Bhägavatam. Nevertheless, Shukadeva Gosvämi and other great devotees have indirectly described it in some of their writings.
Text 457
yathä shri-dashame
nandas tv ätmaja utpanne
jätählädo mahä-manäh
yatha-just as; shri-dasame-in the Tenth Canto of the Shrimad-Bhägavatam; nandah-Mahäräja Nanda; tu-indeed; ätmaje-his son; utpanne-having been born; jäta- overwhelmed; ählädah-in great jubilation; mahä-manäh- who was great minded.
(Shukadeva Gosvämi explains that Nanda Mahäräja is the actual father of Shri Krishëa) in Shrimad-Bhägavatam (10.5.1):
"Nanda Mahäräja was naturally very magnanimous, and when Lord Shri Krishëa appeared as his son, he was overwhlmed by jubilation."*
Text 458
tathä tatraiva
nandah sva-putram ädäya
pretyägatam udära-dhih
tatha-in the same way; tatra-there; eva-certainly; nandah-Mahäräja Nanda; sva-putram ädäya- taking his son Krishëa on his lap; pretya-ägatam-as if Krishëa had returned from death (no one could even imagine that from such danger a child could be saved); udära-dhih-because he was always liberal and simple.
(This is again mentioned) in Shrimad-Bhägavatam (10.6.43):
"Nanda Mahäräja was very liberal and simple. He immediately took his son Krishëa on his lap as if Krishëa had returned from death."*
Text 459
tathä ca
näyam sukhäpo bhagavän
dehinäm gopikä-sutah
tatha-in the same way; ca-also; na-not; ayam-this; sukha-äpah-very easily obtainable, or an ob-ject of happiness; bhagavän-the Supreme Personality of Godhead; dehinäm-of persons in the bodily concept of life, especially the karmis; gopikä-sutah-Krishëa, the son of mother Yashodä (Krishëa as the son of Vasudeva is called Väsudevaa, and as the son of mother Yashodä He is known as Krishëa).
Also in Shrimad-Bhägavatam (10.9.21):
"The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishëa, the son of Mother Yashodä, is accessible to devotees engaged in spontaneous loving service, but He is not as easily accessible to mental speculators, to those striving for self-realization by severe austerities and penances, or to those who consider the body the same as the self."*
Text 460
tathä ca tatra shri-brahma-stava
vanya-sraje kavala-vetra-vishäëa-veëu-
lakshma-shriye mridu-pade pashupängajäya
tatha-in the same way; ca-also; tatra-in the Shrimad-Bhägavatam; shri-brahma-of Bahma; stave-in the prayers; vanya-sraje-wearing garlands of forest flowers; kavala-a morsel of food; vetra-a stick; vishäëa-a buffalo-horn bugle; veëu-and a flute; lakshma-characterized by; shriye-whose beauty; mridu-soft; pade-whose feet; pashu-pa-of the cowherd (Nanda Mahäräja); anga-jäya-unto the son.
In Brahmä's prayers (Shrimad-Bhägavatam 10.14.1):
"Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto the son of Maharaja Nanda, who is standing before me with conchshell earrings and peacock feather on His head. His face is beautiful; He is wearing a helmet, garlanded with forest flowers, and He stands with a morsel of food in His hand. He is decorated with cane, flute, and a bugle made of buffalo horn. He stands before me with small lotus feet."*
Text 461
tathä shri-yamala-vacanam samudaharanti
"krishëo 'nyo yadu-sambhuto
yah purëah so 'sty atah parah
vrindävanam parityajya
sa kvacin naiva gacchati
tatha-in the same way; shri-yamala-of the Yamala Tantra; vacanam-the statement; samudaharanti-quote; krishëah-Lord Krishëa; anyah-another Lord Vasudeva; yadu-sambhutah-born in the Yadu dynasty; yah-who; purnah-the full supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishëa, sah-He; asti-is; atah-than Him (Vasudeva); parah-different; vrndavana-the place Vrndavana; parityajya-giving up; sah-He; kvacit-at any time; na eva gacchati-does not go.
(The different between Krishna's appearance in Vrindävana and His appearance in Mathurä and Dvärakä is described in) Yamala Tantra:
"The Krishëa known as Yadukumära is Väsudeva Krishëa. He is different from the Krishëa who is the son of Nanda Mahäräja. Yadukumära Krishëa manifests His pastimes in the cities of Mathurä and Dvärakä, but Krishëa the son of Nanda Mahäräja never at any time leaves Vrindävana.*
Text 462
"dvi-bhujah sarvadä so 'tra
na kadäcic catur-bhujah
gopyaikayä yutas tatra
parikridati nityadä" iti
dvi-bhujah-with two arms; sarvada-eternally; sah-He; atra-here; na-not; kadacit-at any time; catuh-bhujah-with four-arms; gopya-gopi; ekaya-with one; yutah-associated; tatra-there; praikridati performs pastimes; nityada-eternally; iti-thus.
"Vrindävana-Krishëa always has two arms. He never has four arms. He eternally enjoys pastimes a certain gopi."
Text 463
atha prakaöa-rupeëa
krishëo yadu-purim vrajet
vrajeshatvam äcchadya
svam vyanjan väsudevatäm
yo väsudevo dvi-bhujas
tathä bhäti catur-bhujah
atha-then; prakata-rupena-in His manifest appearance; krishëah-Krishëa; yadu-purim-to the capitol of the Yadus; vrajet-may go; vraja-isa-ja-tvam- status as the son of the king of Vraja; acchadya-concealing; svam-His own; vyanjan-manifesting; vasudevatam-catur-vyuha expansion of Lord Vasudeva; yah-who; vasudeva-Vasudeva; dvi-bhujah-with two arms; tatha-in that way; bhati-is manifest; catuh-bhujah-with four-arms.
In His prakasa form Lord Krishëa goes to the Yadus' capitol, Mathurä. Concealing His real identity as the son of Vraja's king, He shows Himself as Lord Väsudeva. Väsudeva has sometimes with two arms and sometimes four arms.
Text 464
täs tä madhu-pure liläh
prakaöayya yadudvahah
dväravatyäm tathä yäti
täm täm liläm prakäshakah
tat tah-whatever; madhu-pure-in Mathura; lilah-pastimes; prakatayya-having manifested; yadu-udvahah-Yadava-Krishëa; dvaravatyam-in Dvaraka; tatha-in that way; yati-goes; tam tam-that; lilam-pastime; prakasakah- manifesting.
Yädava-Krishëa goes to Dvärakä and manifests the same pastimes He showed in Mathurä.
Text 465
taträvishkurute vyuham
pradyumnäkhyam tritiyakam
yato vyuho 'niruddhäkhyas
turyah prakaöatäm vrajet
tatra-there; aviskurute-manifests; vyuham-the catur-vyuha expansion; pradyumna-Pradyumna; akhyam-named; trityakam-the third; yatah-from whom; vyuhah-the expansion; aniruddha-Aniruddha; akhyah-named; turyah-the fourth; prakatatam vrajet-is manifest.
There (in Dvärakä) He manifests His third and fourth catur-vyuha expansions: Pradyumna and Aniruddha.
Text 466
iti vyuha-catushkasya
lokottara-camatkriyäh
vivähädyäsh ca bahudhä
liläs tatraiva narëitäh
iti-thus; vyuha-catuskasya-of the catur-vyuha expansions; loka-uttara-camatkriyah-very wonderful; vivaha-marreage; adyah-beginning with; ca-also; bahudha-in many ways; lilah-pastimes; tatra-there; eva-certainly; varnitah-are described.
Beginning with His marriages, many wonderful and extraordinary pastimes of His catur-vyuha expansions are described there.
Text 467
vraje prakaöa-liläyäm
trin mäsän viraho 'munä
taträpy ajäni visphurtih
prädurbhävopamä hareh
tri-mäsyah paratas teshäm
säkshät krishëenä sangatih
vraje-in Vraja; pralata-lilayam-during the manifest pastimes; trin-for three; masan-months; virahah-eparation; amuna-from Him; tatrapi- nevertheless; ajani-manifest; visphurtih-appearance; pradurbhava-upama- like the appearance; hareh-of Lord Hari; tri-masyah-for three months; paratah-afterwards; tesam-of them; saksat-directly; krishëena-with Shri Krishëa; sangatih-the association.
During the Lord's prakasa pastimes, the people of Vraja were separated from Him for three months. Then Lord Krishëa again appeared. For three months He appeared among (or returned to) them.
Text 468
ävirbhävägatibhyäm sa
dvi-prakärasya sambhavet
avirbhava-appearance; agatibhyam-or return; sa-this; dvi-prakarasya-of two understandings; sambhavet-may be.
Here the word "sangati" may be interpreted in two ways, as "appearance" or "return".
Text 469
aträvirbhävah
vaishleshika-klamordreka
vivashi-krita-cetasäm
preshöhänäm sahasiavägre
vyägrah prädurbhaved asau
atra-here; avirbhavah-appearance; vaislesika-of separation; klama- distress; udreka-by the great; vivasi-krta-uncontrolled; cetasam-with minds; presthanam-of His dear devotees; sahasa-suddenly; eva-certianly; agre-in the presence; vyagrah-concerned for their welfare; pradurbhavat- appears; asau-He.
"Appearance"
Concerned for the welfare of His dear devotees, whose hearts were overcome with pain in His separation, He suddenly appeared among them.
Text 470
uddhavät krishëa-sandesha
ebhir yadavadhi shrutah
prädurbhävas tadavadhi
syäd vraje vana-mälinah
uddhavat-from Uddhava; krishëa-of Shri Krishëa; sandesah-the message; ebhih-by them; yadavadhi-when; srutah-was heard; pradurbhavah-appearance; tadavadhi-then; syat-was; vraje-in Vraja; vana-malinah-of Shri Krishëa who wears a garland of forest flowers.
When from Uddhava they heard Krishëa's message, Krishëa, wearing a forest garland, suddenly appeared among them in Vraja.
Text 471
vraje dväravati-sthasya
prädurbhävo mura-dvishah
brihad-vishëu-puräëädäv
asakrid bahudhocyate
vraje-in Vraja; dvaravati-sthasya-situated in Dvaraka; pradurbhavah-appearance; mura-dvisah-of Shri Krishëa, the enemy of the Mura demon; brhat-visnu-purana-adau-in the Vedic literatures, beginning with the Brhad-Vishnu Purana; asakrt-repeatedly; bahudha-in many passages; ucyate-is described.
That Shri Krishëa, although remaining in Dvärakä, appeared in Vraja is described again and again in many Vedic scriptures, beginning with Brihad Vishëu Puräëa.
Text 472
vraje virahamäne 'smin
prädurbhuya harau tadä
bhavet tasya pure yatra
svapnavad vraja-väsinäm
vraje-in Vrajabhumi; virahamane-experiancing the Lord's separaiton; asmin-when; pradurbhuya-having appeared; harau-Hari; tada-then; bhavet-may be; tasya-of Him; pure-to Mathura; yatra-hourney; svapna-vat-like a dream; vraja-vasinam-of th residents of Vraja.
When Lord Krishëa appeared in Vraja, which had been tormented with separation from Him, the people of Vraja thought His journey to Mathurä had been only a bad dream.
[Note: Vasudeva , Sankarshana , Aniruddha , Pradyumana are the 4 chatur-vyuh expansions of Golokesh Krishna. In Vrindavan kiliing of demons are done by Sankarshan expansion as described in the same work]
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Post by dharmavir on Jun 13, 2018 23:59:38 GMT -5
Hare Krishna!
We find the verse quoted in the above post 'During the Lord's prakasa pastimes, the people of Vraja were separated from Him for three months. Then Lord Krishna again appeared. For three months He appeared among (or returned to) them.'
Please say what happened during the time when Krishna and Balaram boarded the chariot of Akrura. Did Krishna disappear? Where was Krishna during the three months? Was Krishna transformed into Vasudeva, when He boarded the chariot?
Another verse quoted is 'When from Uddhava they heard Krishëa's message, Krishëa, wearing a forest garland, suddenly appeared among them in Vraja'.
Please tell after how much time did the pastime of Uddhava meeting the Vrajavasis happen? Is the Krishna referred to in this verse is His original form? Did He leave Vrindavan after appearing among them in Vraja or stayed there forever?
I am a little confused with the two verses. Request prabhus to please clarify.
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Post by Uttamasloka on Jun 17, 2018 13:32:01 GMT -5
Hare Krishna! We find the verse quoted in the above post 'During the Lord's prakasa pastimes, the people of Vraja were separated from Him for three months. Then Lord Krishna again appeared. For three months He appeared among (or returned to) them.' Please say what happened during the time when Krishna and Balaram boarded the chariot of Akrura. Did Krishna disappear? Where was Krishna during the three months? Was Krishna transformed into Vasudeva, when He boarded the chariot? When Krsna and Balarama left for Mathura, it was Vasudeva Krsna and not Vraja Krsna who left. Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura states in his commentaries to the 10th canto that Vraja Krsna remained in Vrndavana and enjoyed continuous pastimes with everyone but it was on a different level, i.e.: aprakata - it was invisible to ordinary persons. Simultaneously, Vasudeva Krsna left for Mathura and the separation pastimes were exhibited (prakata) in the visible realm. So two different levels of lilas took place. Some of the answers to your questions are there in my first response. I don't know the answers to your other questions. |
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