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Post by Vraja Vilasa dasa on Jun 12, 2015 18:14:43 GMT -5
Hare Krsna Uttamasloka prabhu,
Thanks for the clarification.
Are those quotes I provided saying that there some sort of 'siddha deha rack' of various spiritual forms, which the guru has full access to, and knows which one has your name on it? And then on the strength of his devotion and bhajan, he hands it over to you to 'slip on' and utilise to serve Krsna with - the final form?
Or are they just referring to a guru giving a disciple the 11 aspects of the mentally conceived siddha deha to assist us in raganuga sadhana contemplation and bhajan?
Ys,
Vraja
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Post by Vraja Vilasa dasa on Jun 12, 2015 18:50:31 GMT -5
It appears from this reference that the guru informs the disciple of the siddha deha to cultivate ...
Bhaktivinoda Thakura in Harinama-cintamani:
"When, on examining the disciple’s natural tendencies, the spiritual master verifies that he truly has the qualifications for serving in srngara-rasa, he informs him of the eternal form (siddha-deha) that he should cultivate as a manjari in Lalita’s subgroup of Srimati Radharani’s group of gopis."
"Then the spiritual master explains the mutual relation between the eleven components (ekadasa-bhavas) of that spiritual identity (siddha-deha) necessary for the practice and the object of that practice – the pastimes the Lord enjoys throughout the eight periods of the day and night. He especially shows the disciple his spiritual name, form, qualities, and principle service. HC, 15.64-68, Srila Bhaktivinoda’s Notes to the verses."
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Post by Uttamasloka on Jun 13, 2015 1:51:30 GMT -5
Yes, more or less. There is a reference they give from Jiva Gosvami's Priti-sandarbha, Anuccheda 10, and the commentary of Kunjabihari Dasa Babaji:
In the spiritual world, the Supreme Lord has unlimited spiritual forms, all are expansions of Himself illuminating that world. With each one of those forms, the Lord enjoys pastimes with a single individual liberated soul.
Sri Kunja Vihari Das Babaji comments on this passage in his Manjari-svarupa- nirupana (11.1) as follows:
These liberated souls therefore have spiritual bodies like that of the Lord. In the Lord’s abode, there are an unlimited number of forms, all suitable for rendering service to him. Every one of those forms is non-different from him, being expanded from his effulgence; each one is eternal, full of consciousness and bliss. They are the crowning, central jewels of the spiritual world – its very life. These unlimited spiritual bodies are the perfected forms of the liberated souls which are awarded to an individual, according to his taste, when he reaches the state of absolute liberation. This state is called attainment of the spiritual body.
All these spiritual bodies are eternal for they exist even before the liberated souls enter them and will continue to exist ever afterward. However, prior to the entry of the liberated soul they are in an inactive state. As all of the unlimited souls are servants of the Lord, each one of them has a spiritual body in the Lord’s abode just suitable for rendering service to the Lord. When an individual becomes qualified for direct service to the Lord by the grace of the Goddess of Devotion, then the Supreme Lord awards him that spiritual body.
Here is Bhanu Swami's translation of that section:
There the people worship the Lord without desiring results, according to the words of the Lord. Unlimited forms, portions of light of the Lord, forms of the splendor of Vaikuṇṭha-loka, reside there. The Lord using one among these forms (associates) makes the form of a liberated soul. It is stated here that the forms of the inhabitants are like the form of the Lord. (This is sārūpya.) Brahmā speaks to the devatās.
Those who follow what is considered to be the 'traditional siddha-pranali' do give the ekadasa-bhavas to their disciples when they feel they are qualified. But none of the purva-acaryas say anything like that.
Yes, that's how I've understood this reference, ie: the guru teaches the theory or concepts and helps the disciple develop their own details according to the disciple's inclinations. In Harināma-cintāmaṇi, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura writes in his commentary in Chapter 15:
When the spiritual master is ascertaining the aspirant’s pure personal inclinations, the aspirant should also help the spiritual master by speaking his mind about his own preferences. As long as he has not clearly established the disciple’s inclinations, the guru’s directions are not flawless.
The inclinations that have been shaped by one’s meritorious deeds, through both this and previous lives, are called ruci or taste. This particular inclination, however, is integral to the soul. Should a person not have a natural inclination for śṛṅgāra-rasa, (mādhurya-rasa) but for servitude or friendship, then he should be instructed accordingly; if not, there will be undesirable consequences. HNC, 15-73-74
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Vrindavan das
Junior Member
"This crying is the last word in the progressive path of devotional service." - SB 3.4.35 purport
Posts: 57
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Post by Vrindavan das on Jun 13, 2015 9:54:14 GMT -5
You make it sound so clear and simple prabhu, because it is. There is no obfuscation here. Simple, direct and to the point in order for even the dummies (like myself ) in the class of raganuga sadhana bhajan 101 can understand. This is truly amazing eye-opening experience, all PRESENTED here in real time. Thank you Krsna for the help (the acaryas merciful instructions and teachings all distilled into a conclusive essence) coming through your dear devotees, so that we can finally reach You, with our heart, body, mind and soul. Better late than never. ys Vrindavan das
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