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Post by prisnidd on Oct 19, 2013 8:47:31 GMT -5
thank you Urmila for this quote "In the neophyte stage one should always engage in hearing kṛṣṇa-kathā. This is called śravaṇa-daśā, the stage of hearing. By constantly hearing the transcendental holy name of Kṛṣṇa and hearing of His transcendental form, qualities and pastimes, one can attain to the stage of acceptance called varaṇa-daśā. When one attains this stage, he becomes attached to the hearing of kṛṣṇa-kathā. When one is able to chant in ecstasy, he attains the stage of smaraṇāvasthā, the stage of remembering. Recollection, absorption, meditation, constant remembrance and trance are the five items of progressive kṛṣṇa-smaraṇa."
So why don't we just come to the stage of chanting krishna nama in ecstacy and then we see if we still have disagreements to discuss?
"Caitanya-caritāmṛta advises those who are neophytes to give up all kinds of motivated desires and simply engage in the regulative devotional service of the Lord according to the directions of scripture. In this way a neophyte can gradually develop attachment for Kṛṣṇa's name, fame, form, qualities and so forth. When one has developed such attachment, he can spontaneously serve the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa even without following the regulative principles. This stage is called rāga-bhakti, or devotional service in spontaneous love."
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Post by niscala on Nov 18, 2013 19:25:38 GMT -5
PD: So why don't we just come to the stage of chanting krishna nama in ecstacy and then we see if we still have disagreements to discuss? Two reasons: 1. If the disagreements are about the process of attaining the platform of prema, wherein ecstatic symptoms are present, then that would be like saying "Why don't we just get on the roof, then discuss if the ladder is strong enough?"Especially when the method recommended by the previous acaryas is the pivot of the controversy, it is clear that this "strength of the ladder" is being doubted by some. 2. It engages our otherwise fickle intelligences.
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Post by ross becher on Aug 21, 2015 23:36:21 GMT -5
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Post by Uttamasloka on Aug 22, 2015 1:26:16 GMT -5
Ross. Your link didn't come through properly. Can you repost it please?
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Post by Devotee on Jan 15, 2018 8:25:24 GMT -5
Pranams and love to you all 🙏 I just want to share my experience. I had deeply these same questions for a long time and was intensly praying about it, that I would be able to fix and meditate on my Divine goal. The explanations given by most Gaudiya Saints for what manjari bhava was like were deeply satisfing but still something in me felt missing or that it was too sectarian in some way. But fully realised Saints sometimes present secatarian way, because that is will of Lord to bring everybody to a certain way and point. For example most world religions like Christianity, and Narayana Maharaja stated this happens too with Vaishnava Saints (siddhantas different for kanishta, madhyama and uttama. And he said Lord Balaram and Krsna enjoyed with same Gopis, but most Acharyas cover it up because we cant understand right now. Also how Locana Das thakur songs in Dhamali relate to Lord Chaitanya as Enjoyer and lover like Krsna, but later Acharyas covered it up to spead it in the right way.) Anyways, the most non-sectarian universal answer and explanation was showed to me by Lords grace from book of Kripaluji Maharaja. In “Prema Rasa Mandir” volume 2 Preface. The sakhi bhava paramparas in Vrindavan (Banki Bihari Swami Haridas and Radha Vallabha Hit Harivansh) all do Rupadhyan and long to serve Radha Krsna in Their Nitya Vihar (where They are never separated and never enjoy with anybody but Eachother) in sakhi bhava following Ashta Sakhis.
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Post by devotee19 on Jan 15, 2018 8:58:35 GMT -5
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Post by Krishn parth das on May 14, 2018 22:42:34 GMT -5
Prabhuji,
Radhe radhe.
Please do not argue regarding which bhav better than the other. Recall what rahdh rani has done. Just serve and serve krishna. Whoever serves best would recieve the greatest level of Bhav. It is radha rani who can assess our bhav and neither of you people who are arguing. So do your service, do your karma and do not argue for the karma phal. The fruits for your service will be judged by radha rani.
Hare Krishna ji
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Post by Uttamasloka on May 16, 2018 2:07:31 GMT -5
We are not arguing which bhava is better. You have misunderstood what we are discussing here. It has nothing to do with which bhava is better. It has to do with whether one can aspire to be a priya-sakhi or only a manjari. That's all. Please read more carefully before you criticize or tell us what we should or should not be doing. Prabhuji, Radhe radhe. Please do not argue regarding which bhav better than the other. Recall what rahdh rani has done. Just serve and serve krishna. Whoever serves best would recieve the greatest level of Bhav. It is radha rani who can assess our bhav and neither of you people who are arguing. So do your service, do your karma and do not argue for the karma phal. The fruits for your service will be judged by radha rani. Hare Krishna ji
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Post by Uttamasloka on May 16, 2018 2:08:27 GMT -5
Sorry I missed your post a few months ago. Thanks for that additional information.
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Post by dharmavir on Dec 20, 2018 4:37:31 GMT -5
There are instances in the writings of the Goswamis about the intimate services that are rendered by the manjaris to Sri Radhika, such as bringing Radhika's necklace from the caves on Her order, which She forgot while being absorbed in the pastimes with Krishna; their access to the nikunjas where the Divine Couple are performing Their pastimes, where the sakhis cannot enter or have no access to; and their moods such as palya dasi, wherein the manjari considers herself as being maintained by her Swamini.
Can you please share some examples which indicate intimacy between the priya sakhis/parama preshtha sakhis with Sri Radhika, which the manjaris have no access to or are unaware of those intimate exchanges?
Please tell if it is possible at all to aspire for and adopt the moods of the so-called husband of the gopis or the position of the rival gopis.
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Post by Uttamasloka on Dec 22, 2018 0:08:57 GMT -5
The examples of the asta-sakhis and priya sakhis are the entire basis for the asta-kaliya-lila in madhurya-rasa. They are Radha's most intimate girlfriends and are closer to Her than the manjaris, according to Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura in Ujjvala-nilamani:
One should understand the conclusion to these points. Sakhīs, nitya-sakhīs, prāṇa-sakhīs, priya-sakhīs, and priya-narma-sakhīs actually all have successively greater prema for both Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. This is the significance of those names (i.e., the five types of sakhīs).
Those who have more affection for Kṛṣṇa are the sakhīs. The nitya-sakhīs (mañjarīs) have more affection than them for both Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa but they are called sakhīs with more affection for the group leader because they have slightly more affection for Rādhā than for Kṛṣṇa (asama-snehā).
The prāṇa-sakhīs (principal mañjarīs) have more affection for both Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa than the nitya-sakhīs, and slightly more affection for Rādhā. They are also called sakhīs with more affection for the group leader.
Those who have more affection for both Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa than the prāṇa-sakhīs but also have equal affection for both are the priya-sakhīs. They are called sakhīs with equal affection (sama-snehā).
The priya-narma-sakhīs (parama-preṣṭha-sakhīs, i.e., aṣta-sakhīs) have even more affection than the priya-sakhīs for both Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, but equal affection for both. They are also called sakhīs with equal affection. UN, 8.137
The asta-sakhis and priya-sakhis are the ones directly interacting with Radha and Krsna throughout the lila. They are Radha's peer girlfriends. Just read the lila and their involvement is crystal clear. As far as their confidential interactions, I prefer not to discuss such things here.
The husbands of the gopis are a special type of manifestation by the lila-sakti, so one cannot aspire for that position. No acarya teaches that. Nor do they teach aspiring to be in Radha's rival group.
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Post by Dasa on Jun 23, 2022 1:58:58 GMT -5
I am bringing to light the fact that there are two access points to madhurya-rasa: nitya-sakhi manjaris, and priya-sakhis. No one has mentioned that before to my knowledge. I have shown via VCT's commentaries that being a manjari is not the only option for entry into Radha's group. Those desiring to be priya-sakhis also follow tat-tad-bhavecatmika-bhakti and so they will also experience ALL of Radha's bhavas as do the manjaris. And what about being in Radha's group following Krishna snehadhika bhav?.
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Post by Dasa on Jun 23, 2022 1:59:22 GMT -5
I am bringing to light the fact that there are two access points to madhurya-rasa: nitya-sakhi manjaris, and priya-sakhis. No one has mentioned that before to my knowledge. I have shown via VCT's commentaries that being a manjari is not the only option for entry into Radha's group. Those desiring to be priya-sakhis also follow tat-tad-bhavecatmika-bhakti and so they will also experience ALL of Radha's bhavas as do the manjaris. And what about being in Radha's group following Krishna snehadhika bhav?.
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Post by Uttamasloka on Jun 23, 2022 17:36:30 GMT -5
I am bringing to light the fact that there are two access points to madhurya-rasa: nitya-sakhi manjaris, and priya-sakhis. No one has mentioned that before to my knowledge. I have shown via VCT's commentaries that being a manjari is not the only option for entry into Radha's group. Those desiring to be priya-sakhis also follow tat-tad-bhavecatmika-bhakti and so they will also experience ALL of Radha's bhavas as do the manjaris. And what about being in Radha's group following Krishna snehadhika bhav?. First, tell me what is your definition or understanding of Krsna snehadika bhava.
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Post by Dasa on Jun 24, 2022 2:58:57 GMT -5
And what about being in Radha's group following Krishna snehadhika bhav?. First, tell me what is your definition or understanding of Krsna snehadika bhava. Those gopis who belong to Radha's yutha, but have little more affection for Krishna, more than Radha.
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