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Post by mahashaktidas on Feb 8, 2013 14:24:44 GMT -5
In my recent discussion with a very well known sannyasi who is a diksha disciple of Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta, a sisya disciple of Srila Sridhar Maharaj and a sannyasi from Srila Narayan Maharaj, I mentioned that manjari bhava does not appear to be the only valid entrance into madhurya rasa for aspiring bhaktas. His response utilized various scriptural references to promote the concept that not only was manjari bhava the highest, most confidential and best bhava to aspire for, but it was the ONLY bhava that a Tatashta jiva could attain within the madhurya rasa category because the other types of sakhis are not attainable by dint of the constitutional limitations of the jiva.
He actually stated that we as jivas cannot aspire for direct contact with Krsna because we are not capable of such high expressions of prema. This seems to be the prevalent understanding among many persons, that direct contact with Krsna in conjugal rasa is taboo.
He went on to state that aspirations for direct contact would surely lead to a falldown. Where does it state that anywhere in sastra? Ironically, a leading Srila Narayana Maharaja sannyasi with a large number of disciples recently fell down due to illicit contact with young women.
Has anyone else been exposed to this type of thinking?
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Post by Uttamasloka on Feb 8, 2013 14:57:00 GMT -5
Good question. After reading Ujjvala-nilamani with the commentaries of Jiva and Visvanatha, I found no such statements or indications. Being that UN is THE definitive work on madhurya-rasa, you would expect to find such details there, but nothing of the sort is there. Nor did I find anything remotely like that in any of the other books of the acaryas that I used for reference, and those books were among their major texts.
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Post by prisnidd on Mar 16, 2013 13:57:46 GMT -5
That idea seems to be common among raganuga practicioners outside of Prabhupada's lineage, and I have encountered many times. I take it as they are following a manjari-only lineage, and therefore it is impossible for them. Prabhupada clearly taught that we can choose any rasa we want with Krishna, and that is acarya statement enough for me.
What do we expect, that some kind of spiritual cop will come and take us to jail for illegal rasa infringement?
Bhakti is not a mental endevour that we need to figure out the perfect constallation with our intellect. It is basically something of the heart, and if you try to approach Krishna directly in the heart you will get the answer even if you intellectually cannot find it.
I have discussed with non-Prabhupada lineage raganuga practicioners, and they get really angry with me if I say something like that. But just think, the gopis are young girls, and they are the best in bhakti. How do you think they do it? By learning and mental speculation, or just love Krishna with all their hearts?
What was Prabhupada's teachings, that we all should become fantastic scholars and figure out bhakti with our superior intellects, or was it something much simpler?
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Post by niscala on Mar 20, 2013 3:45:06 GMT -5
It doesn't make sense that desire for a direct connection with Krsna leads to falldown as such desire increases in relation to the development of the siddha deha, which is the alternative to the bodily identity. Besides, Krsna means Krsna and His associates. This was explained by Srila Prabhupada. One cannot have a relationship with Krsna without a relationship with Radharani, and the priya sakhis desire both equally- sama sneha. So the advice that one must approach Krsna through His energies or dear devotees is also honored by those with sama sneha.
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Post by Uttamasloka on Mar 20, 2013 23:42:18 GMT -5
Prisni & Niscala: Very good insights. Thank you both for those contributions. Here's the definitive and conclusive statement from Visvanatha Cakravarti in Ujjvala-nilamani: Having loyalty to the group leaders and their sakhis, according to their own desires, the three types who follow the parama-prestha-sakhis with equal affection for Radha and Krsna become priya-sakhis with a similar type of affection. The three types who follow the prana-sakhis (principal manjaris) with more affection for Radha become situated eternally as nitya-sakhis (manjaris) with more affection for Radha. UN, 8.137, Commentary One important thing to note is that practically no contemporary Vaisnavas have read Ujjvala-nilamani with the commentaries of Jiva and Visvanatha, since only one version is available, namely the translation by Bhanu swami, which is the one I used. And it's not even available for sale. The Narayana Maharaja camp is still waiting for his version to be translated. Thus, most contemporary devotees do not know these esoteric details, unlike readers of my book.  |
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